Police numbers - who believes What TM say?

surely it is in families children are taught ‘right and wrong’.
Yes Anniebach

After the war many boys were brought up by single mothers, in poverty, because their fathers had been killed during WW2.
Did they turn to crime and violence? Very few.
In the main, they tried to make a better world.

That is true Framilode and the burden falls on the single mother. I respect Cressida Dick’s summing up of the situation rather than our PM’s. I’ve lost all respect for May.

Of course some of the problem is lack of policing but I also think there is a cultural problem here. Many young children of West Indian heritage are brought up without a stable father figure in the family. Young boys need a male role model and some seem to find it in the gangs.

look north people .Not ONE single death from knife crime in Glasgow in 2017 .London has asked for help with it but whether they actually take the help and advice is another story .Police numbers are up here ,crime at a 40 year low .This is not something thats widely known as it keeps being reported as a UK problem .We're dealing with things differently and it works .

www.theguardian.com/.../scotland-knife-crime-
public-health-issue-violence-uk
14 Dec 2018 - Scotland started treating knife crime as a public health issue – and violence plummeted, says Sarah Jones MP.

By countrywide I mean U.K. wide.

I disagree that we are a “racist society” trisher .

It is no secret that almost all of the victims and perpetrators of knife crime are young black males. What I don’t know is whether all the victims are as “innocent” as their families and friends would have us believe? (obviously some are just in the wrong place at the wrong time) or is it a case of kill or be killed ? In other words could the tables have easily been turned and victim become perpetrator?

Also to be fair we are talking about this as though it is a countrywide problem when it clearly isn’t .

trisher for once I totally agree with you. ??????

That is so true GG13. It is amazing how much publicity has surrounded this girl's death and yet we continue to insist we are not a racist society.
As far as TM is concerned I have just listened to a Home Office spokesperson saying that Cressida Dick did not contradict TM's statement because TM said their was no "direct" link and CD said there was "some" link. Talk about splitting hairs!
The situation with the police is appaling but it will only be properly resolved when crimes begin to impact on middle class families, as long as it is poor black young people suffering no one will do anything.

Family is where everything stems from. Ideally our young people should be brought up with values, discipline and respect for others.

Unfortunately this is not always the case, there are youngsters getting pregnant in early teens with no support from their families and no role models. There are family breakdowns and it is normally the women left to raise the children.

These young predominantly black teenagers turn to gangs as an alternative to extended family. They make them feel part of a collective of like minded “brothers”.

It is more entrenched than cutting surestart and youth clubs, which are seen as “establishment” and interfering by some.

If they are poor the lure of “easy money” from running county lines supplying drugs must be a temptation, a way out of poverty.

It has taken a white girl to be killed for society to wake up!!

Totally agree Anniebach . We can’t just keep blaming lack of resources for what seems to be ( for some) the breakdown of family life . Parents who are either no longer around or don’t give a damned what their son is doing out at night (as long as it isn’t bothering them) or they are so out of control there is little they could do anyway . There seems to be a culture of complete disrespect for parents, teachers and anyone in authority .

Seems the cause is lack of police, lack of social workers, lack of probation officers, lack of mental health services, no mention of families , surely it is in families children are taught ‘right and wrong’.

The underlying causes of gang culture need to be addressed and cuts all round are not the way to go
I agree MawBroon and many of the incidents of knife crime seem to be gang and probably drug-related. More police are needed to crack these gangs.

However, some are not and the latest incidents seem to have no reason whatsoever.

I think I missed out a “which is ...”

I think the absence of a police presence can not be swept under the carpet where street crime is concerned.
It is not just their absence but also the reduction of police numbers is aggravated by the increasing pressure our police are under dealing with other paperwork (suspected non PC tweets for instance)
But along with reduced police numbers, withdrawn services such as Surestart, and youth initiatives are all madness in an increasingly fragmented society such as the one we live in.
The underlying causes of gang culture need to be addressed and cuts all round are not the way to go.

Anniebach totally agree

tanith I really don’t think it would reduce the number of knife carriers . Those who carry knives don’t walk around the streets brandishing knives. Police cannot stop and search every youngster they see. How many police would be needed to walk every street, every park, every alleyway 24 hours a day? And throughout the country ?

Not forgetting many youngsters have no respect for the police, they may see knife carrying as a challenge to authority and enjoy the thrill

sorry - 73% before anyone picks me up on my maths

In 2014 Theresa May, then Home Secretary, drastically scaled back 'stop and search'
In April Mrs May said use of stop and search had become an “unacceptable affront to justice” after Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary found that 27 per cent of searches did not contain reasonable grounds for suspicion.
That does mean that 77% did contain reasonable grounds for suspicion.

Lord Hogan-Howe did, I think, recommend a co-ordinated approach to this as there does not seem to be one at the moment.

We do need to increase police numbers and other support services before this escalates even further and more families are left bereaved.
Surely it's just common sense?

Anniebach no one is saying it would solve the problem, as others have said cut backs in support services have also contributed but it seems common sense that if police and pcso’s were more visible on the streets it would deter youngsters and maybe catch more criminals.

Bring back stop and search.
Unfortunately the elephant in the room is that the majority of these crimes are “black on black”.

There seems to be a deep hatred and resentment by a section of society against the authorities, whether it be police, school or even firefighters and ambulance personnel who are being repeatedly attacked.

Police have never been on every street corner, policing has changed over the years, I have 3 friends with AC who are serving Police Officers. There is no respect for them and their hands are tied by red tape and political correctness.

This problem starts with bullying at school and escalates outside the gates. Together with the “county lines” drug gangs recruiting boys sometimes primary age.

What are the parents doing, where is the discipline at home and the respect for the basics of human life?

This is far more than “Bobbies on the Beat”

So we need to put more effort in reinstating those services which have been cut - youth services, supporting deprived families etc. No, police can’t be everywhere but when we had more officers and pcso s they did go round patrolling places where kids hung out parks and so on. Now you never see them.

I don’t think it’s as simple as putting more police on the streets, society has broken down, many families are broken,

Police can’t stop and search youngsters to check if they are carrying knives, if they did there would be outrage and accusations of racism. And parents would have to be informed their child was to be searched .

Of course police numbers matter, or any staffing numbers for that matter, otherwise why do governments trumpet any increases in this and that, when it suits them?

There can't be police officers on every corner but surely if there were more to be seen out and about it would have an affect on street crime in general.

Assuming causal (and indeed non-causal) relationships is invalid without proper evidence. She is pronouncing that the rise in crime is unrelated to the fall in police numbers - where is her evidence? Yet another example of TM pronouncing via an organ other than her mouth.

I think it goes deeper than just lack of police numbers though. If/ When these people do get caught what happens to them ? Are they locked away for a long time ? Or do they get a telling off? ( poor lads are from deprived backgrounds etc) . If the law came down very hard on even the carrying of knives then maybe lessons could be learned . Since when did it become acceptable to be part of a violent gang ? To walk the streets carrying knives ?

Must dash .