Shemima Begum

I don't like the look of you, young swarthy man with a rucksack, you are banned. And you, young lady with a scarf and nice trainers, I don't care much for the cut of your jib

I reckon that would work just fine.

If Syrian nationals were coming here reaking destruction we would expect to send them back to Syria

But it is BRITISH nationals going over to Syria killing Syrian nationals and ruining their peace so damn right they should be able to send them back here!!!!

We could ask all people with British passports entering the UK who look a bit as if they might be of Arab descent "Are you or have you ever been a member of ISIS?" (I'm sure that would work wouldn't it? )

Where they already are ! Where they chose to be !

So friggin colonial, we cant dump our problems on the likes of Australia any more you know

Ban them to where???

How exactly do you think IS members can be "banned". If it wasn't so terrifying it would be funny.

There are no " horrible comments ", just differences of opinion. Isn't that allowed ?

Perhaps you'd better form a petition to bring her back here, starting with a letter to the Home secretary, because that's what I'd do if I felt as strongly as you all do. I've put my name to many online.

As we speak there are 600,000 who've signed banning members of ISIS back into the country----so good luck with that ! No sign yet of one set up for SB !

A very thoughtful post Monica. Thank you.

Deedaa, you have said what I was worried about saying. Are we any better than those we abuse, if we also lack the compassion that they too have lacked.

M0nica, I think you are absolutely right. S.B's general demeanour was quite strikingly odd, particularly her attitude to the baby! It was as if she had been programmed and was behaving accordingly. Looking at the photo of her before she went to Syria, and the pictures of her now, the difference is quite striking. I see her as a deeply traumatised young women in desperate need of help.

I have seen horrible comments on line about the baby. Whether or not the mother was responsible for her actions surely the death of a three week old baby is a tragedy. If we find it amusing or deserved we are as bad as the terrorists.

The more I read the vile and horrible things some people have posted on this thread, the easier I find it to be sorry for Shamima Begin, especially after the Michael Jackson program, which show how insidious grooming is and how completely taken in by it those groomed can be, not capable for some years, of recognising that what happened to them was grooming and abuse.

The best way to look at this is to say that ISIS is a cult, in the same way that the Jimmy Jones led cult, where their eponymous leader motivated them all to commit suicide in Guyana, or the Branch Dravidians, who died in a shoot out at Waco.

Shamima Begum was a child when she went to Syria, the age when others her age are groomed online and go to meet supposed boy/girl friends at distant railway stations, to find they are predatory adults. The age when pupils run off with teachers or their father's best friend or a neighbour because they have been careful groomed and think this older abusive person can offer them a perfect new live.

I am sure when the ISIS grooming process started there was no mention of beheadings and killings and one of the purposes of the skilful grooming, like people like MJ seems to have used, is that the vulnerable person is gradually led to accept the unacceptable, whether 'consenting' to physical abuse, because it is accepted as proof of 'love', to accepting that to reach a society which is an earthly paradise, some killing is regrettably necessary.

Many of the unpleasant remarks have been based on how she has behaved since she reached the refugee camp. Her vacant expressionless face, the way she seemed not to be relating to the child she had just given birth to, that others were sometimes holding for her. I believe that these are all symptoms of severe mental illness,probably something like a disassociative condition.

This mental illness is described as Dissociation is any of a wide array of experiences from mild detachment from immediate surroundings to more severe detachment from physical and emotional experiences. The major characteristic of all dissociative phenomena involves a detachment from reality. Dissociation is commonly displayed on a continuum. In mild cases, dissociation can be regarded as a coping mechanism or defense mechanisms in seeking to master, minimize or tolerate stress – including boredom or conflict en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis.

What I see in Shamima Begum is child who was lured into a cult out of which there was no escape once she was in it, and who has coped by completely dissasociating herself mentally from what is going on around her. Thus her indifference to what she saw.

If she does return to the UK, she is going to be inpatient in a mental hospital for a long time before she is even capable of being interviewed by the police, let alone being charged and appearing in court.

Once the UK was a compassionate country, but for the last 30 years a culture of Me has emerged, if Me and Mine are ok, bugger the rest of them

Not only bugger the rest of them, but stamp on them to get what Me wants.

Sorry trisher but I only feel sorry for those innocent people who can't help themselves.

SB didn't even have a British passport---it was her sister's.
Would you not have thought that SB would have applied for a British passport if she'd have had any intentions of staying here ?

Nobody held a gun to her head when she joined that tribe, she,with her friends went under their own volition. Are you telling me that at 14/15 she didn't know her own mind ?

I think SB stirs up emotions in us all, some bad and some good.

I cannot understand why she joined Daesh, but my heart aches for a 19 year old girl who has buried 3 babies.

She has to live with that every minute of every day for the rest of her life.

I do not know what’s going to happen to her, can she be rehabilitated? Will she always be a threat?

I am not sure that the UK should let other poorer countries keep our citizens because we do not want/are afraid to have them back.

same here GillT57

I am not a Christian, I was just trying to remind a few on here who trumpet on about their Christian values. Like a few decent others I too am thoroughly disgusted by some of the comments on here, truly vile. I am stepping down from this thread and will leave the racists and bigots and those with no compassion for a bereaved child to get on with it. For the record I am neither right wing nor left wing and I loathe ISIS.

She was a child EllanVannin when she was recruited. There is a website about child soldiers. Of course there are innocent women. there are also innocent men. This is a debate about one British girl recruited at 15 and used by an evil regime. All this victim blaming is to make some people feel better about the terrible results of our involvement in the middle East and our inabiliy to protect or even rehabilitate those who are suffering as a result, even when they have a right to be called British.

Sudan, Congo, Zimbabwe some of the poorest countries in world but those mothers look after their babies best they can, even feeding them themselves albeit malnourished themselves, so how come a young nourished woman was unable to sustain these babies as afterall they must have been nourished enough to have been born ?

There are thousands of the above innocent women in war-zones who didn't ask to be there nor did they join in with the fighting. Get the priorities right !

Anyone who expects anything resembling what they consider 'normal' behaviour from this young woman is expecting the impossible. How she came to be recruited is irrelevant. She was recruited. She has suffered and she needs help. If we had reacted to her with the care she deserves her baby might well still be alive.

I do wonder why at 19, two babies dead she was unwilling to let her baby come here to her family , yes mother love, but isn’t it the most natural act for a mother to save her child , this does niggle away in my mind

I feel angry about terrorism and mindless killing of innocent victims, but I think it can be such a destructive, although normal emotion. I feel angry, but also sad and compassionate towards this girl, and her dead children, and the many children who are now dying in refugee camps, without a chance to live their lives. I am not religious but have just been shown a poem by a Buddhist Monk called Thich Nast Hahn. "Please call me by my true names". It says it all really for me.

Anja: . But this was a well nourished young woman judging by her chubby face and chin. So I don’t understand how her two previous children died from malnutrition (allegedly). Nor did she hold this last child in any way that suggested maternal feelings. It was as if she was holding a doll.

This was not a well nourished woman, She had 'lost' her food card, (not difficult in that sort of place) and had not been eating herself, let alone feeding her child.
And FFS, she had lost two children already, and this baby was never going to survive without outside help. Is it any wonder she was unable to bond with him?
This young woman is not going to be a danger to the British people as Javid insists. She needs help, not condemnation, whatever she has been led into. Even if that means in a prison.
Once the UK was a compassionate country, but for the last 30 years a culture of Me has emerged, if Me and Mine are ok, bugger the rest of them.

All on a stolen passport ! Where did her air fare come from ? Stolen too ? This being the case then what she did was well-planned and not a spur of the moment decision.