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(22 Posts)
Fennel Sun 10-Mar-19 12:17:47

Will someone please explain to me in simple words why the border problem in Ireland is called a backstop? The word reminds me of my position as backstop in rounders.
I do realise that at the moment separately N and S Ireland are members of the EU. As NI is part of the UK if we leave the EU the border with the south will be like that between 2 foreign countries.
But why 'backstop'?

NotSpaghetti Sun 10-Mar-19 12:32:10

It’s just as it implies, the last ditch position if all else fails:

It prevents a border between Northern Ireland and the South.

NotSpaghetti Sun 10-Mar-19 12:34:07

The border problem is not the backstop - the backstop is the suggested solution (if all else fails).

Fennel Sun 10-Mar-19 12:51:01

Thanks - the Guardian article looks good, I'll read it later.

RosieLeah Sun 10-Mar-19 15:14:34

The people of Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU, they don't want a 'hard border' with the south. The only solution is for the North to leave the UK.

varian Sun 10-Mar-19 15:17:41

The much better solution is for NI and the rest of the UK to remain in the EU.

eazybee Sun 10-Mar-19 15:30:16

Actually, Varian, what you need to write is:
In my opinion the much better solution is for NI and the rest of the UK to remain in the EU.
Other wise, people might think you are a dictator.

varian Sun 10-Mar-19 15:36:07

I am no more a dictator than RosieLeah. We are both offering our own different opinions, which is what happens all the time on GN and other forums, without every post starting with "in my opinion"

RosieLeah Sun 10-Mar-19 15:36:10

We all think our opinion is the right one!

EllanVannin Sun 10-Mar-19 15:37:16

RosieLeah, Margaret Thatcher said that years ago and those who wish to remain British are welcome here, those who don't, stay where you are and remain separate from Britain.

annep1 Sun 10-Mar-19 15:50:49

Northern Ireland is part of the UK. .
The UK voted to leave. I would have preferred not to but that's a different subject.
I live in N Ireland. I have no objection to a hard border.
Fennel is right. It will not be a border between the N and S. It will be a border between two countries, one in the EU and one not. Coincidentally part of it will follow the border between Northern Ireland and the RoI.

varian Sun 10-Mar-19 16:47:17

Voters in Northern Ireland will back a united Ireland after Brexit, a new poll suggests.

The independent poll of 1,199 people was commissioned by the campaign group Our Future Our Choice Northern Ireland (OFOCNI), which is calling for a People's Vote on the Government's final Brexit deal.

The group also claims the poll reveals widespread dissatisfaction at how the DUP is handling Brexit and calls for Sinn Fein to back a Belfast City Council vote tonight in favour of a People's Vote.

Over half (52%) said they would vote for a united Ireland after Brexit, with 39% wishing to stay part of the UK.

In the event of Brexit with a hard border, 56% favoured a united Ireland, with 40% choosing to stay in the UK.

Should the UK somehow remain in the EU, the poll found that more than half (52%) would want to stay in the UK, with just 35% supporting a united Ireland.

This was the result of polling last September but I doubt whether there would now be a very different result, so stopping brexit would be the best way to preserve the United Kingdom.

annep1 Sun 10-Mar-19 17:47:15

And you think that will work Varian? That would just upset a different set of people. Have you lived in this country since 1968?
As regards a united Ireland. I prefer the NHS with all its problems.

Cherrytree59 Sun 10-Mar-19 18:18:37

Voters in NI may or may not wish a United Ireland, but has anybody asked the people of Southern Ireland if they would consider a joining with NI to become a United Ireland?

The financial cost to West Germany was quite significant when East and West became a United Germany

varian Sun 10-Mar-19 18:21:52

I do not advocate the unification of Ireland or any other solution to this conundrum, but only point out that it is an insoluble problem created by brexit. If we revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU, this problem would no longer exist.

jura2 Sun 10-Mar-19 18:32:45

the backstop is no solution- just a temporary 'trompe l'oeil' to fool anyone that the problem has gone away - it won't. Anyone with any knowledge of the history, very recent history, of NI/Eire will know that for sure. It might- one day - be different. We were well on the way - but Brexit has ruined all the progress.

It will take generations- probably quite a few.

So VArian is totally right. This is not opinion.

Farmor15 Sun 10-Mar-19 18:49:38

Very recent poll suggests that a majority people in Northern Ireland would prefer checks between Britain and NI than at Irish border, which May has firmly rejected.
Various other interesting findings in survey, including general dissatisfaction with DUP and Arlene Foster.

varian Sun 10-Mar-19 19:07:00

We do not need checks now, either for goods or people, between NI and ROI or between NI and GB. Let's keep it that way by remaining in the EU.

MaizieD Sun 10-Mar-19 19:17:35

It was the DUP who rejected what would be, in effect, a border in the Irish Sea. May had to go along with them because she has no majority without the DUP.

But isn't that now what they have gone back to Brussels with? A proposal for a 'border' between NI and Britain. To keep the ERGs happy because it would mean that Britain didn't have to be in the EU customs union and subject to EU regulation. OTH, how would May keep her DUP props happy if that goes into the WA?

MaizieD Sun 10-Mar-19 19:23:08

Sorry, a bit of misinformation. The ERGs wouldn't like Britain to be included in the backstop because that would mean being subject to EU regulations for an unspecified period of time.

Of course, if the WA is passed the UK is still subject to EU regulation and laws for the duration of the 'transition period'. (Which is why the ERGs also hate the WA.)

annep1 Sun 10-Mar-19 19:33:52

Dissatisfaction with Sinn Fein as well Farmor according to the article.
Unfortunately when it comes to elections no one is brave enough to vote for a new party.

An excerpt from the article:
Just over a third of Northern voters want a referendum on Irish unity. If one was held, just 32 per cent would vote in favour of unity, while 45 per cent would vote against. The number in favour of unity rises to 58 per cent among voters from a Catholic background, with 18 per cent against and 24 per cent who say they don’t know..
I find that very interesting.

jura2 Sun 10-Mar-19 19:50:54

the backstop solves nothing, long term. Here is a nice documentary about youngsters near the border feel- and their genuine fears that the so called 'Troubles' could return