Theresa May

trisher

NO I am not saying that.

Read my post again.

POG's, in regard to your post @13:25 today, had Labour won the 2014 general election I cannot think that any EU Referendum would have been placed on a House of Commons order paper throughout their period of office.

However, as the Tories won the above election then Labour obviously supported the holding of a referendum as it was in the Tory manifesto and they won.

It would seem in the eyes of some that whatever the Labour party do it has to wrong. They are accused of being wrong in not supporting the government in much of this Brexit debate, but when they do they are also then wrong.

It's a funny old world this politics game.

Grandad

" Labour obviously supported the holding of a referendum as it was in the Tory manifesto and they won. "
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That is a peculiar take on why Labour supported the EU Refendum !

Labour could have voted against it is my point.

What of the points I raised and the question re Labours position and the Withdrawal Bill?

What is in the Withdrawal Bill Labour finds unacceptable , does not align to Labours position of withdrawing from the EU ?

What is in the Withdrawal Bill / Agreement Labour cannot sign up to as I said I have not heard one Labour MP from the front bench / Shadow Cabinet explain what they would change. I have heard the front bench / Shadow Cabinet say they could not renogiate what is in the Withdrawal Bill / Agreement.

I simply cannot get my head around Labours position other than it is going all out to get a General Election and voting down all other proposals , THUS FAR.

POG's, it might help this Tory government if all the Conservative MPs in Parliament backed Theresa May's withdrawal agreement. In that, it would not matter what the Labour Party position was as May would command a Majority in the House of Commons along with her cohorts in the DUP.

However, the Tory Party having created this entire Brexit crisis now cannot agree among themselves how to get this nation out of it.

The Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the opposition has remained committed to the party conference policy of seeking a General Election as a priority and only if that cannot be achieved to then seek a second referendum.

As it appears that this government could collapse at any time, remaining with the General Election policy would seem to many a good option.

However, as stated many times, the Labour party are not in government at this point in time. Therefore what their policies are cannot affect the outcome of this Brexit crisis.

That as stated is entirely of Tory party making and it is for them to "sort it out" if they can ever agree on how that should be accomplished.

However, I see little chance of that happening.

Grandad

This will sound rude but it is not intended to be , I don't know how else to make my point. Could you answer the question and points made or not?

Going on about the Tories when asked about Labour is a deflection.

The points I made and the question asked has nothing to do with Labour not being power. I asked if you knew the Labour position concerning The WITHDRAWAL BILL / AGREEMENT and what is there in the Withdrawal Bill/Agreement Labour does not like.

As I have mentioned I have not read, heard or seen the Labour front bench say what it is they have a problem with, they actually agree with the Irish Backstop. What does not chime with Labour's position now as a Remain Party or even if the UK remained in the EU.

Do you know or not. I am asking you for insight.

However, as stated many times, the Labour party are not in government at this point in time. Therefore what their policies are cannot affect the outcome of this Brexit crisis.

That as stated is entirely of Tory party making and it is for them to "sort it out" if they can ever agree on how that should be accomplished.
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Tory party making with the agreement of Parliament including Labour who voted for the Referendum.

I agree the Tories should sort it out but the policies of the Opposition parties are affecting the outcome of how and where Brexit is heading.

As for agreement Tory and Labour MP's are as divided as each other.

POGS, surely the Tory party should have ensured that at least a significant majority of the Conservative party in the House of Commons had a clear view of what Brexit was, and how that was to be brought about before they launched the referendum.

However, the leadership of the Tory party did none of the above, and to compound that mishandling they called a non-essential General Election in 2017 that was disastrous for the Conservative Party and ended
the Theresa May government majority in the House of Commons.

Never in my view has there been such an incompetent government in power since the Neville Chamberlain led Conservative administration fell in 1940.

Why then POGS should the Labour party assist in the "rescue" of this government from their own stupid actions. Indeed, many in the wider Labour movement may well not support the current party leadership in the House of Commons if it were seen that they such action as officially assisting this Tory government could lead to it remaining in office.

The Labour party conference instructed Jeremy Corbyn and other shadow ministers that their priority was to be to seek a general election. Sadly some Labour MPs have not sustained support for that policy, but Corbyn has, and in my book that's the way it should be.

It is the Tory party that has solely brought this Brexit crisis on the nation by way of gross incompetence, and it is their sole duty to sort this mess out.

It's as simple as that.

Apologies for the formatting in one section of the above. Not sure how that came about.

Grandad - did they vote at Conference to go for a General Election even if catastrophic No Deal was the price.

I don't think so. Jeremy will be, to my mind, responsible if we are thrown into No Deal that will destroy our economy- and further divide the country.

Let's have an Informed Vote on the current situation - and give people a chance to decide on the current deal- or the current catastrophy. Sometimes circumstance change vastly- and you have to adapt too. Do you really think Jeremy would win an Election. What an indictment that, even with this massively incompetent and disastrous Government- polls indicate JC would not win- adn we would end up with one of the ERG in charge. Wake up - please.

jura2, the Conservative party began its 2017 General Election campaign with a twenty point lead in the opinion polls. That was the sole reason that Theresa May called the election as she believed she could destroy the Labour party in that ballot and therefore proceded without thought for Brexit which was already ongoing.

The broader Labour movement in the country even at this time feel that a General Election fought now would even with the Brexit crisis ongoing would bring forward major other issues which could turn polling in their favour.

In that, when it is reported in the news this week that a millionaire private landlord in the North of England is evicting whole streets of tenant families for no other reason than he wishes to retire, then anyone should be able to appreciate that the grassroots Labour people may have a point.

However, I have great respect for the million people plus that took part in the "Peoples Vote March" today, but I do have reservations in regard to the instability in the country that could be brought about by holding a second referendum at this time.

That stated, my company did hold a full five-day stage four Industrial safety training course last week at one of the Unite Unions Reginal centres here in the West Country. Many that attend those courses are grassroots activists in both the Labour party and the broader Labour movement in the country. In breaks in the tuition course, the talk was always of Brexit among the attendees. In that, our tutor has been telling us that a General Election was still the forefront demand among those activists.

Of course, sixteen trade union activists on a training course does not make a great sample of overall grassroots opinion in the Labour movement. However, in my humble opinion, it does represent what true grassroots thinking is in the movement at this time.

That situation is causing Jeremy Corbyn to remain in support of the conference decision to set a General Election as the first priority of the Labour party leadership.

That's where the Labour party is, and I cannot see that changing anytime soon.

Neither can I - but they won't win- and in the meantime they will take the economy and the coutnry down with No Deal.

We need a strong economy, and to crack down on tax evasion - if all the ills we face in the UK are to begin to be mended. Tank the economy, and forget about solving them.
As said before, I am no fan of Mrs May- but at least she tried - what has Jeremy done

Started a separate thread to discuss Jeremy Corbyn's future, so we can stikc to Mrs May here.

1940 ? In the middle of WW2.

When is that bloody woman going to do the country a favour and GO?
She’s a complete liability and her inflammatory speech blaming everyone else inc. MP’s for her own utter incompetence was beyond belief.
She has clearly ignored the advice of her Cabinet Secretary, yet again...
I genuinely thought Thatcher was the worst PM in British history closely followed by Dodgy Dave but TResemme has zoomed to the top of that particular leaderboard.

She’s only got a few days left hasn’t she? Max two weeks? My money is still on Jeremy Hunt as the one with least baggage ( its all relative of course).

David Lidington? That sounds an interesting caretaker solution. Sarah Vine clearly is sabotaging MG’s chances by her toxic tweets yesterday re the March - bet last night was fun chez Gove

Grandad

You are still NOT answering the question re Labour's position on the WITHDRAWAL BILL / AGREEMENT and the points I raised.

You are not answering why Labour voted for the Refendum you gave the weirdest answer :-

"However, as the Tories won the above election then Labour obviously supported the holding of a referendum as it was in the Tory manifesto and they won."

You are deflecting by talking about the Tory Party.

Do you know the answer to the question :-

What is in the Withdrawal Bill Labour finds unacceptable , does not align to Labours position of withdrawing from the EU ?

What is in the Withdrawal Bill / Agreement Labour cannot sign up to as I said I have not heard one Labour MP from the front bench / Shadow Cabinet explain what they would change.

I have heard the front bench / Shadow Cabinet say they could not renogiate what is in the Withdrawal Bill / Agreement. I have heard many Labour MP's from Keir Starmer, Barry Gardiner, John McDonnell, John Trickett et al say the ' WITHDRAWAL BILL / AGREEMENT' cannot be changed, it is what it is and that is the EU position. They too could not renegotiate it. They even agree the Irish BACK STOP is required.

So if Labour were in government and the EU Referendum HAS NOT been overturned Labour would be in the same position as Theresa May regarding the EU WITHDRAWAL BILL / AGREEMENT.

Where I get confused is the EU Withdrawal Bill/Agreement is being called the worst deal ever and MP's on both sides of the House have voted against it. For the most part the reason for rejecting it has been the IRISH BACKSTOP as it is reported as keeping us in the Custom Union which in turn means we cannot trade freely and we will still have to abide the jurisdiction and trading arrangements made by Brussels without being able to unilaterally get out of it.

So why does Labour vote against the Withdrawal Bill / Agreement?

Labour has one aim to get a General Election so it may well get it's way shortly. It is surely not unreasonable to discuss Labour's position but I am of the opinion either Corbyn/Labour supporters don't know or they do know and the answer is they would agree to the WITHDRAWAL BILL / AGREEMENT if Labour were in power.

The Labour position is as muddled as the Tory position.

Well it looks like she’s not going anywhere soon

Regarding Sarah Vine and her toxic tweets, some wit replied, words to the effect-"*there is a special place in Hell for Sarah Vine and in that Hell she gets to wake up every morning next to Michael Gove"

I thought Ms Vine was suffering some sort of melt down associated with stopping antidepressants. I thought it was unforgivable actually to be peddling her ill informed nonsense.

I read an article in the Guardian by Dominic Lawson (what's he doing writing in the Guardian?)
He said TM has had the ambition to be the first woman leader of the CP since she was at school. And was cheesed off when Maggie beat her to it. But now she's leader herself, she'll never resign.

She didn’t become MP until 7 years after Thatcher stood down

The PM is leeching the life out of us all. Every time she opens her mouth, I feel as though another 10 years have been added to my age.

Currently, I'm around 935 years old.

-same here.
I'm sure many of the other troubles in the country are due to Brexit - nearly 3 years of nonstop stress.

Can anybody answer the point re the Withdrawal Bill / Agreement and Labour's position?

There seems to be a determination to avoid the question.