Public school

Grandma70s we are hardly in a position to prophesy what modern music will still be around in a 100+ years time. I’m not talking about modern classics either but genuine popular music.

Well I am strictly a triangle and recorder expertise as there were probably only 6 instruments to play at my school.

Does that make me bitter about my lot? Nope.

I don' have a scrap of envy or malice toward those who went to grammer, public school, Eton, Harrow, Oxford, Cambridge etc.

It is not the business of others to decide if a parent wishes to pay for their child's education as it is nobodies business if other people wish to pay for private health. Besides which some parents I have no doubt are not necessarily stinking rich as is supposed.

It does not follow that education makes a person a decent human being nor does it follow education makes you a shallow, uncaring person as the journalist eludes to, in my opinion. His own snobbery seems to elude him.

I find the journalist in the OP link to the Guardian is typical of those who cannot see beyond class warfare as it forms the basis of their political views. Class and Wealth are nothing more than a weapon to hit somebody over the head with in most cases.

I thought that teaching of a musical instrument was an 'extra' to be paid on top of fees in independent schools, exactly the same as in state schools?

I cannot agree, Grandma70s; it is like comparing apples with oranges.

Many memorable pieces of classical music feature drums - and many 'pop' drummers are brilliant and could probably easily transfer to playing classical music.
Who can deny the brilliant playing of such as Brian May - and of eg Nigel Kennedy?

It is a form of intellectual snobbery the same as the Guardian journalist is displaying in reverse.

It is lack of funding that means music is not taught as widely in state schools - and, of course, independent schools can provide this but it is not through the goodness of their hearts, parents are paying for it.

Surely everyone’s idea of “good music” is different though Grandma70’s. Just because a piece of music is not “classical” it doesn’t mean it’s not still brilliant in its own right.

Incidentally, I don’t rate an oboe above a drum. I have great respect for the percussion section in an orchestra. A violin has a far more expressive range than a guitar, and there has been vastly more good music written for violin.

More depth, more demanding, more to think about, simply more interesting. There is nothing ‘snooty’ about preferring classical music and wishing children to experience it. There is a reason why Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are still played hundreds of years after the pop music of their time has bitten the dust.

I was a singer in semi-professional choirs for many years - not, alas, something one can do into old age. I learnt how to sing at school. I have sung with several well-known orchestras. It is fashionable at the moment for people to say they enjoy ‘all genres’ of music, but I find that a bit indiscriminating.

I don’t think you can use the term ‘modern music’ to refer only to commercial pop. There is modern ‘classical ‘ music too - operas, orchestral music, songs. It’s being written and performed all the time.

Oh how clever you are to be musical Anja . Sadly I can’t play any instrument, but I thoroughly enjoy listening to music of all kinds. I could never rate a violin above a guitar or (as you mention) an ”oboe above a drum” . As they are all wonderfully brilliant in their own right.

dipping into this thread for the first time. Wow! Such a lot of strong feelings in here.
It reminds me of when I was introduced to a 4month old and informed that the parents were home schooling. What already!

I went to 9 different schools in 3 countries. (3 private and 6 state) I used to feel sorry for myself but maybe I was privileged.
We moved out of the city when our DC were approaching high school age in the hope that the local school would be a better social mix. Unfortunately the teaching was poor at that time with a rapid turnover in staff and little discipline. Our eldest suffered from bullying. We moved him to another state school and luckily he survived. His DC now go to an independent school.

Now I suppose I should read the article.

Grandma70 as a musician I enjoy playing all genre of music. If you had a wider knowledge of ‘pop’ music you would know that some modern music is ‘up there’ with the classics in its complexity and musicality.

I don’t understand how one genre of literature can be ‘more important’ that another. More to your taste perhaps, more demanding?

What a strange and snooty way to judge the merits of a school!

I think classical music is more valuable than pop/rock music, certainly. Same as I think Shakespeare is more important than a Batman comic.

The strange idea that you have that an oboe is worth more than drum tells me all I need to know Grandma70's.

Who knows, he may have to mix with horrid commoners? I think Daddy will find the funds.

Keble

My fingers have expanded

POGS
Is he still angry at Keble for refusing him a place and has never got over his resentment?

I do remember visiting KJeble in my youth (obviously was not there myself as it was a men's college in those far-off days).

Totally Lily - I imagined this comment was 'aimed' at parents who send their kids to Private or Public Schools so these are provided.

I am constantly surprised at the number of parents who don't do such activities with their children

Possibly having nothing to eat or no uniforms or no washing machine or living in fear may make think them twice about a trip to the ballet?

Jalima

No need, he put his own foot in his mouth.

Dinahmo - I was gobsmacked (as they say) by your post addressed to me saying I should have provided cultural activities for my children. Of course I did ! They had all those experiences, just as I did in my youth. What I was complaining about was the lack of such opportunities for ALL children in many state schools, the lack of such topics as everyday, normal discussion. Such things need to be introduced in school for the many children whose parents do not provide them.

I was looking recently at the websites of two senior schools that my grandson might go to next year. The independent school he will go to if my son can afford it (he has a place) offers music teaching for violin and other strings, woodwind, brass and piano among others. The state school, which has a good reputation, mentions visiting teachers of drums, keyboards, guitar - not one orchestral instrument. That tells me a lot about attitudes and assumptions.

I became interested and read about the journalist in the OP.

He applied to study Modern History at Keble College, Oxford, but was rejected, and claimed[citation needed] that his membership of left-wing organisations had not won him many favours with such a traditional and conservative college. He spent three years studying Philosophy, Politics and Economics at another Oxford college, Queen's, between 1989 and 1992.

Happy to be corrected.

He chastises, is derogatory of certain MP's because they studied at Oxford / Cambridge and yet it appears he went to Oxford himself. Fair enough he did not go to Eton and Harrow.

He raises their class but in my book his comment about Radstock and Midsomer Norton shows his own shortcoming and shows him to be a tad hypocritical.

I would be interested to know his thought of left wing / Socialist MP's who went to public school and / or went to Oxford and Cambridge who are pure out and out hypocrites who send their children to public schools /Oxford / Cambridge while decrying others for doing the same.

Sorry but I think the article is pot calling the kettle black but cannot see the irony.

That's why I wanted to stuff the Guardian in his mouth, POGS!
(the journalist, not J R-M, supposedly a good constituency MP although his constituents voted to remain)

I didn't realise we were harking back to the 13th century.Mogg -Rees is privileged, entitled and loaded.

"He has amassed a significant fortune: his estimated net worth in 2016 was from £55 million to (including his wife's prospects) £150 million"

" This is the same county where Rees-Mogg now represents such fading former pit towns as Radstock and Midsomer Norton, places replete with the ghosts of a lost industrial past and the consequences of the austerity that he has enthusiastically endorsed."
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Cheeky B----r

Well-paid jobs which require higher qualifications are dependent on intellectual ability, and it's very much a matter of luck (and genes) whether you are lucky enough to be born with that.
humptydumpty well said.
No matter how hard some children may try they are never going to get A and A* grades - and all should be encouraged and not demeaned because of a lack of intellectual ability.

Culture does not end at the boundary of the M25