Visit of Trump

EllanVannin have you really looked at Trump's policies, it is hardly likely he will rush to our aid. His policies as regards Iran and Israel are aggravating not calming the situation. Just remember how long it took in WW2 for the US to take action and it was only Pearl Harbour that bought them into the war. The US only acts when it is under threat.

Betty Boothtoyd has no right to speak out against a man following his conscience. She is long retired.
I take it that is tongue-in-cheek Anja! It was very funny

I expect many of us are long retired but we certainly seem to have plenty to say on the subject.

IMO as a retired person Betty Boothroyd is right to speak out and right in what she says.

If there are lots of dinners going spare because people seem to be turning down their invitations, perhaps they could invite Greta Thunberg and Caroline Lucas who could sit either side of him.

It's true that the Blair/Bush action in Iraq was in most respects disastrous. However, when Blair is lambasted for this futile policy, it is largely forgotten that his intervention in the civil war in Sierra Leone was undeniably successful.
I'm no apologist for Blair, but credit where credit is due.

www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/18/sierra-leone-international-aid-blair

Keep to the point EV this thread is about Trump and your own post offered the US up in role of ‘saviour in two World Wars’.

PS wasn’t Blair just appeasing his Overlord in the White House anyway?

Callistemen yes, too many poking their noses into other people’s lives, I agree. Many with ‘advice’ which wasn’t asked for!

It makes me laugh that anyone could think that it’s fine to meet the Chinese Leader and attend a banquet ( like Corbyn did) but draws the line at DT.Or how any poster on GN think that it’s fine to host Chinese leaders but not the POTUS.
It makes me wonder if they know much about China’s regime at all!

EllanVannin yes, people need to see the bigger picture instead of revelling in their own self righteousness.
It seems to be a feature on forums though.

Not to mention the King of Saudi Arabia.

Isn't it strange that anyone pointing out the downside of the Chinese regime or any totalitarian regime come to that, is met with a deafening silence. Yet the mention of some other governments is met with self righteous indignation. Why are some awful governments ok, and others not?!!

Its the Crown Prince not the king of Saudi that calls the shots in that country!!

It's the Crown Prince of Saudi that runs things, not the King!

Sorry, I thought the first post hadn't gone through!!!!

The answer is simple. We’ve known about these regimes eg Saudi and China for ages and have no better expectations of them. Nasty and corrupt all the way through.

We had expected better of the POTUS. Yes, there have been some corrupt and odd ones eg Nixon and Bush, but there have also been amazing ones too eg Obama.

Never, however, have any of them sunk to low on all fronts that the current holder.

so low

Good analysis anja about expectations and POTUS.

What is there to say about China - utterly awful regime( of one kind or another) for decades and I’d never visit for all the tea they had?

Thanks Jabber, the main thing is though that we, the British, have welcomed him to Britain and he has attended a State Banquet whilst he was here.

I would say that the reason for meeting with China is that we know it is a country going through huge changes and that talking and influencing these may be our best hope for more liberal policies in the future, whereas the US now seems to be on a retrograde path and is curtailing liberties once taken for granted, so not talking to them and not attending state banquets may once again be the best way to express disgust. It's a bit like children you have to talk to them and teach them what is right but once they know, and if they then behave badly ignoring them sometimes gets results.

As for Saudi they shouldn't be permitted anywhere near any of us and we should stop supplying them with weapons systems.

I think all the Gransnetters put together couldn’t drink all the tea they have in China Maryeliza

But more seriously, I’ve just looked at my tea packets, and the country of origin isn’t listed. It says on the one brand that they belong to The Ethical Tea Organisation and a different brand claims to be a member of an organisation that respects the rainforest. So we don’t know if we’re buying Chinese tea or where the tea comes from. It’s all blended anyway so possibly the blend contains tea from different countries.

My point is we often don’t know if we’re supporting regimes we’d really rather not support, when we buy every day products in the shops.

I agree maddy - all we can do is the best we can within reason. I remember during the apartheid years buying a really beautiful blouse. When I washed it for the first time I had to iron it inside out and there in minuscule letters sewn into a seam was the label Made in South Africa. I did continue wearing the blouse but never felt the same about it

Most of the teas from China are more of the specialist type of tea, the best known being Lapsang Souchong or Earl Grey and some green teas.
I think most tea comes from East Africa and Assam, although, looking at my packet, it is from Yorkshire maddyone.

Just a snippet in case anyone was interested.

It's really difficult to know where some of the things we buy are manufactured - even if we know, we may not know where the components or ingredients come from.

The thing about America is that the current President won't be there for ever, 5 years max, so why insult him and risk antagonizing the country? For China of course their president is there for at least 20 years if not longer! ditto North Korea, probably Putin, and more besides! Not sure that China will ever be up for democracy! Inscrutable they certainly are! Why is it ok to sanction some countries disapproved of, while encouraging dialogue with others?!

Jabberwock Trump is not America. Many have demonstrated against him and many would welcome a British stand. China has undergone such huge changes in the last 100 years that it is difficult to predict anything. We have almost 400 years of trying to acheive democracy and probably still haven't got it right.
Interesting that they are taking air pollution very seriously and making more progress than we are. www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/14/pollutionwatch-china-shows-how-political-will-can-take-on-air-pollution

Another 5 years of DT is plenty of time in which to finish off privatising the NHS and put in in the hands of the damn Americans. Not to mention ruining our food standards.