The priest at Lyras funeral

I think it's disgraceful for us to be using the funeral of this ordinary young woman to argue about the rights and wrongs of the RC church's stance on homosexuality.

I think we should all leave off and shut up.

We are Day6, but having said that,my experience of the R.C faith has been positive on more than one occasion, when the CofE has at times been wanting!
'In my father's house,there are many mansions'! I find that quite comforting , and for me somewhat sums the whole thing up.

I conclude there will be many 'sinners' in the Catholic church. The majority of them will be heterosexuals. Gay Catholics are in good company.

I imagine most priests KNOW their flock to be wayward and sexuality is but a blip they have to ignore, given it is 2019. How many of those sexuaally active, unchaste 'sinners' confess to their sin?

(The flippin' confession box would need to have a revolving door and seat quite a few at a time and the priest would have to have a dining table and bed in there. He'd never leave.)

In many ways we wear religion as a cloak. Some have a deep faith, others go out of fear or because of tradition. I imagine modern Catholics say their prayers at night but carry on sinning. Aren't we all sinners, according to the church?

It is a bit of a minefield but this (which is American, from Iowa) seems to state that ALL good Catholics should be chaste - ie: not engaging is sex before marriage, because of God seeing sex as the act for procreation.

Chastity is the stumbling block. I am not sure many chaste people exist. Are all Catholics over the age of 16 chaste - really?

waterloocatholics.org/information-for-gay-lesbian-catholics

I cannot be the only one that thinks many young Catholics co-habit and have sex before marriage, whatever their sexuality?

Gays and Lesbians in the Catholic Church

"Many Catholics, including gay and lesbian Catholics themselves, are confused or misinformed about the status of gay and lesbian persons in the Catholic Church. As a result, many gay and lesbian Catholics fail to participate as fully as they can in the spiritual and sacramental life of the Church, and many Catholic communities fail to welcome and embrace gay and lesbian Catholics as fully as they should.

If you are a gay or lesbian Catholic, the first thing you should know is that gay and lesbian persons are always welcome in the Catholic faith community.

A gay or lesbian Catholic who is living a chaste single life is a Catholic in good standing, and is entitled to participate fully in the spiritual and sacramental life of the Catholic faith community.

A gay or lesbian Catholic who regularly engages in sexual activity or is a partner in a committed personal relationship which includes regular sexual relations is entitled to participate in a limited way in the spiritual and sacramental life of the Church.

Catholic teaching makes important distinctions between a homosexual person, a same-sex attraction, and homosexual actions.

The Church affirms the dignity and value of every human being, regardless of sexual orientation. The Catechism of the Catholic Church insists that homo-sexual persons “must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity” (#2358). The U.S. bishops have written: “Nothing in the Bible or in Catholic teaching can be used to justify prejudicial or discriminatory attitudes and behaviors.”

Some Church documents describe same-sex attraction as “objectively disordered.” This is the Church’s way of saying that same-sex attraction tends to seek fulfillment in sexual acts which fall short of the creative meaning and purpose of human sexuality as given by God and ordered to God’s creative purpose. However, the U.S. bishops point out, a homosexual attraction is not in itself sinful, and God does not love a person with a homosexual orientation any less than a person with a heterosexual orientation.

The Church considers homosexual acts “intrinsically disordered.” This is because, contrary to the natural law, they “close the sexual act to the gift of life” and “do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity” (Catechism #2387).

This is the reason why homosexual Catholics, like unmarried heterosexuals, are called to a life of chastity, which limits the legitimate exercise of sexual relations to men and women in a sacramental marriage. It is also the reason why the Church does not recognize gay civil unions as sacramental marriages.

But he was sinning Jab . Not everyone can cope with the contradiction - look how Lyra suffered until she came out to her mother - and that was only a few years ago. It’s no good saying ah well I know they say that but they don’t really mean it - they should make their mind up

Don’t be so ridiculous ab. I’m putting my views on here because I think that the church ( in this case the priest) is hypocritical in wanting politicians to work together in harmony when the church refuses to grant equal rights to gay people and casts them as sinners and evil if they are sexually active.

maryeliza you are using the death of this woman to air your views on the Church, shame on you.

My late cousin was a convert to Roman Catholicism and he was gay, living with a long term partner. At no time did the church deny him holy communion confession or any other sacrament including his Roman Catholic funeral. I can't answer for anyone else, but we as a family were treated with the utmost compassion and respect as was he, both during his life and in death. As a family we're Anglo Catholics not Roman.

And if the church really cares and is changing in practice why isn’t it honest and change its theory? It’s actually very hypocritical to turn a blind eye if that’s what it’s doing. It’s like RC in this country using contraception whilst tolerating the fact that women in strongly RC countries are denied such benefits and often suffer horribly from young and frequent pregnancies

The catholic church like many other organisations is split by this matter. There are Catholic priests who completely condemn Gay people and will not administer communion to them or allow them to worship in their church. The hierarchy is mealy mouthed about it saying they condemn the sin but not the sinner. But gay sex remains a mortal sin and unless you make confession (and true confession requires a commitment to try not to sin again) you cannot take communion. In other words you can be gay but not a sexualy active gay.

It may be doctrine that homosexuals do wrong, but I suspect the church, like most things, recognises a difference in ancient theory and modern day practice.

Oh really? I must have missed the news that they were no longer only blessing straight couples with the sacrament of marraige.

The sacraments are VERY important to catholics. Excluding gay catholics from one of the sacraments, IN MODERN DAY PRACTICE, speaks volumes about the churches modern day opinions

The RC church says clearly that homosexual acts are a sin - not just being homosexual. Therefore as long as your homosexuality stays in your head you are fine so the church says. So if you express your love physically you are sinning. That’s the official position .

Do you know any gay Catholics maryeliza?

Catholic priest Fr Martin Magill laid Lyra to rest. She didn't give up her faith or deny her sexuality.

It may be doctrine that homosexuals do wrong, but I suspect the church, like most things, recognises a difference in ancient theory and modern day practice.

It may be unspoken but as far as I know, poor Lyra was not damned by the church at her death, or during her very moving funeral service.

I think the cause of her death, the reasons why people want to kill one another, mattered more, to all concerned.

I am talking sense,if only you could do the same , Gays attend Mass, they receive the sacrament, fact,

Homosexual sex is not a mortal sin? What are you talking sbout?

This is so not true ,

Utter rubbish ab gay sex id a mortal sin and you cannot take communion. This is caring?

According to the statistics on the wesleyjohnston.com site about the past Troubles the Nationalists (combined groups) were responsible for 1886 deaths and the Loyalists (combined groups) for 896. The Army comes in at 299 and the Police 56.
Since the GF Agreement there have been 158 deaths. 74 of these are attributed to Nationalists and 71 to Loyalists. It would appear from The Detail Website and Irish Times that most of these were attributed to internal feuding of the respective sides.
As a previous poster on this thread stated, both sides have serious problems about moving on and dwell too much in the past. Ireland as a whole and of both parts has to agree to put it all in the past and move forward. Perhaps this will be the death that starts that process.

Doesn’t mean the Church doesn’t care for gays, good grief , do you not know priests of all denominations support people in prison, priests separate the person from their deeds , because a church doesn’t accept gay marriage it doesn’t mean they don’t care for the gay community .

You are using homosexuality to attack the church

No Annie I am saying the DUP and the Catholic church are homophobic. They think it's a sin.

trisher you are claiming the people of N.I. Are homophobic , not true

"So the question as to why this was such a media-fest is a good one."

I suppose because she was 'one of their own'. Journalists are part of the media, there was also a lot of media interest when the journalist Christopher Hitchens died, even though a lot of people outside the media had never heard of him either.

Annie haven't you been following this thread? The situation in N. Ireland for gay people is different from that in the rest of the UK. Prejudice and intolerance is maintained and encouraged by the DUP.
Devorgilla this was by no means the first violent death since the Good Friday agreement. Most murders have been committed by Loyalist. paramilitaries and the majority of those have been of other Loyalists although they have murdered Catholics as well. So the question as to why this was such a media-fest is a good one.

I get the feeling that the clergy tend to dwell on LOVING one another, which is what God wants, so the gay community is not oppressed in church - to my knowledge. I imagine the doctrine is one gay Catholics might shun - and one hererosexual Catholics have trouble with too.

Our Anglican church has two lay preachers who are gay.
You don't see a 'gay person', you see a person, surely? Using a modern system of morals rather than one from thousands of years ago which advocates stoning and casting out 'offenders' is much more sensible. Love is love, in any form and it should be cherished. I remember a priest saying that to my Irish (lapsed) Catholic father many years ago.

The people at this funeral were applauding the priest for speaking out about the actions and non actions of the politicians