Peers wanting to remove pensioners' benefits

Lots of interesting information here, thanks, but not quite what I asked for.

People have said that those paying tax should not get the free prescriptions, WFA and bus passes. The tax threshold is £12,500 pa so I would love it if someone could give a breakdown of how a single person, living below the tax threshold, could manage please. Maybe one of the people who suggested they didn't need the add-ons? Obviously it would need to include everything. I simply want to know because I am fortunate to not be in that position.

GGMK3 I can assure you that the system is definitely not skewed to give me "my wealth" what a totally ridiculous post!!!!!

If by "wealth" you mean running a small business whilst raising 5 children, often with baby in pram behind desk or toddlers in playpen or even traveling around the SE with youngsters in the back of the car during school holidays as we did not have GP on hand to help.

Everything we have has been gained through stress, long hours at some times it would have been easier to close down and go bankrupt putting our employees out of a job and causing hardship to their families but no to the detriment of our family life and our relationship we carried on!!!!

Life has never been equal for all and probably never will be, but a little less "bashing" of those who have managed to accrue a bit in the bank and pay off their mortgage would be nice sometimes.

And the state would never keep you and your husband, GrannyGravy, even if you spent every penny of savings that you have, as your joint income must be way over the level where you would be eligible for pension credit.

In fact, even if you both had just a basic state pension and no other income whatsoever, you would still be over the income threshold for PC!

GG13 agreed. It's the 'politics' of envy isn't it? Is there really something wrong with starting out with nothing and working your way up? Why do so many think it has been easy or lucky? If you remove the incentives to succeed and save for your old age what message are you sending out to those coming behind us?

Apologies for my “ranty” post.

Nonnie we know we are fortunate now but it didn’t feel like we were fortunate during the hard/children raising time.

Envy is not nice in any form and achieves nothing.

There is also the train of thought that if you have your own business "you must be rolling in it" . Ha! what a bleedin' joke that is. I bet my DH and I earn well below the national minimum wage, in fact I know we do !

Don't apologise GG13 I fully understand how you feel, I feel the same knowing how we struggled and we don't want to be made to feel guilty because we are OK now. We have put far more into the state than we have taken out and we give to charity so it is unfair to blame us for others' inability to do the same or even those who made different choices and are not as secure as us now.

I believe, for a couple, the inheritance tax threshold is £850,00. It is not widely publicised but the vast majority of estates do not attract inheritance tax.

I thought at the time that the theory behind deferred pensions was that the population was staying active for longer and therefore continuing working for longer so state pension not needed so early. Where did that go wrong?
Entirely agree that there should be a modest annual charge for bus passes, as for rail cards, but perhaps collected 5-yearly to save admin costs? WFA and free television licences could kick in at age 75 or 80. Can’t think why those simple measures haven’t been introduced already.

winter did you know that those who live in some big conurbations already get free rail travel with their bus passes? In London they call it the Freedom Pass and many MPs seem to think that all pensioners get it, they don't. Labour has said they will nationalise the buses and railways so either those who currently get it will lose it or it will be given to everyone.

"If by "wealth" you mean ..." (GrannyGravy13 Mon 29-Apr-19 11:04:05). Wealth is defined as the value of all the assets of worth owned by a person.

Thinking of those with great wealth, with no wealth and those in the middle, wouldn't many of them say that their lives have been stressful, they worked long hours, and sometimes it would have been easier to give up? Life may never have been equal but it has been more equal in the recent past.

I think Eloethan had a point in setting out the figure for inheritance tax. Your post would be more appropriate if someone was suggesting you would pay more tax than those wealthier than you, rather than those poorer than you.

What I am suggesting is not the "politics of envy" (Nonnie Mon 29-Apr-19 11:13:19). Conditions have been changed by governments in the last four decades that have increased the significance of inheritance. From 1910 to 1950 that significance had fallen. The ideas of equality of opportunity which came out of the two world wars have been lost. All I'm suggesting is that we should resurrect them. To do this, those with more must go back to paying a fairer share of tax.

Are you really telling me that excessive inheritance and privilege is good for the country? Were the days of the "landed gentry", where inherited wealth dictated your future, what you aspire to for our country? Because there is every likelihood that is what will happen unless we adjust the tax system to a fairer one.

I think for us “ordinary” folks the tax system is fair.

What needs to be looked at is the multinationals moving funds/profits through various “shelf companies” and thereby not paying any where near the proportion of corporation tax due.

GracesGranMK3
Thanks for reply but I'm not surprised that my take on 'wealth' or a 'comfortable lifestyle' doesn't sit well with you or others who share your views.
IMV, neither of us is right or wrong. It's just a difference of opinion.
I stand by those who have slogged their way to a better lifestyle by giving up time spent with family, working more than one job, taking less pay in order to keep their business afloat in difficult circumstances and all manner of sacrifices, many of which may have compromised their health at times.
If I were a recipient of pension credit, believe me, I would still salute their efforts and believe in their right not to be bled tax-wise.
I'm never envious of anyone and am thankful for everything. If it all went down the pan tomorrow, I know I could find a way to manage.
I really don't understand why wealthy people are demonised.
If they had estates and wealth passed down to them it's just the same as you leaving your house and belongings to your children...just a different ratio.
Who's to say that whoever benefits from largesse, doesn't squander it?
These forums are a great way to exchange ideas and read different views and I don't expect to have agreement from or with every comment posted.
It's good to lock horns as long as we don't cause damage.

Gabriella just read you post at the top of the page.

We have had our roof stripped and redone three times, twice reusing the same tiles with a few extras, once with completely new tiles. Admittedly not all the same house - and we have also renewed guttering, once completely, several times parts thereof. In fact we make quite a family hobby of renewing roofs. Shortly after we had our first roof renewed, DH's parents were so impressed they did so as well and today the roofers started on reroofing DS's home.

Hi M0nica
I'm sure you must have had a real need to re-roof your houses as it's not something I imagine anyone does 'on a whim'.
At least you appear happy with the result. All good.

I think after paying a TV license for almost 60 years people over 75 should be entitled to a free pass as for many it is only entertainment they have as not well enough to get out and about, especially in winter. I think government shou
d leave it up to individual's to either claim winter fuel allowance or not if they need it/want to as it will cost more to work our fair system. I do think if people live in a home for elderly and not responsible for paying heating or TV license they should not get it though. When young people have paid NIC for say 50 years then they should know they wfill qualify too. Young people with children get child benefit and some young families can claim working tax credits and housing benefits. I don't see why older people who have made contributions over many years should be denied just so younger people who have paid in for less time should get extra benefits.

A very simple and fair way of raising more money foe NHS would be to charge those in hospital for meals taken.

Another point about free travel passes for èlderly is that elderly reaction times and often eyesight is not so good as it once was so best to gently encourage them off the roads with free bus pass.

I doubt this would work newnanny as you would get people refusing meals rather than pay for them, which would in turn hamper recovery.

Gabriella, to be fair we are serial house renovators. Four so far and we have been so long in this house DH is running out of renovations so he is designing an extension!

"I stand by those who have slogged their way to a better lifestyle by giving up time spent with family, working more than one job, taking less pay in order to keep their business afloat in difficult circumstances and all manner of sacrifices, many of which may have compromised their health at times." (GabriellaG54 Mon 29-Apr-19 14:24:43)

No one is saying people didn't work hard but they didn't do it on there own and they didn't do it without a country like ours to do it in. Taxes should be fair. They are not and have been getting more and more unfair for the past 10 decades. Inequality leads to dire consequences not just for the poor whose future is stolen but for the whole of society - the one you will have to live in.

That should be four decades not 10.

GGMK3 we need companies to invest in U.K. Manufacturing and Industry, to provide jobs, apprenticeships and graduate programs. Some of these will get "tax breaks" and rightly so.

We all know big multinationals who pay as little tax as possible, these should be held accountable.

Taking away pensioners rights will not fill the governments coffers, it is just a divisive way to pit generations against each other.

Saying that we each have a responsibility to prepare for our retirement when financial circumstances permit.

Your first two paragraphs are taking us off to another subject GrannyGravy13. Perhaps it's worth another thread?

"Taking away pensioners rights will not fill the governments coffers, it is just a divisive way to pit generations against each other."

Rights change all the time; ask the people on Universal Credit. It's time we overhauled areas such as Pensions and Care. Sadly little or nothing other than Brexit has a chance under this government.

If you are fortunate not to be in the position (of having to live on sub £13k pa) why on earth would you want to know how someone would manage to do so?
What a waste of time.