Peers wanting to remove pensioners' benefits

I wonder how many rich people use a bus pass?
Maybe those who feel they can afford not to take these benefits should have the ability to opt out. There are many low income pensioners who have a home they can barely maintain and just enough savings to prevent them from getting Pension credit. These people are just about managing, are in fuel poverty and frugal with food and other utilites. Many have worked from 15 years of age. The youth of today often dont start full time work till they are in their mid 20s and few if any will experience the poverty that many of the older generation worked themselves out of and sacrifices made to achieve this.
However, it appears we are all selfishly sat on our easily come by pots of gold.

Take all benefits from pensioners who have worked to earn them and there will be less to take from them to pay potential care home costs. Less to support their children and grandchildren. Prescriptions will not be filled because of cost resulting in more hospital admissions.

I dont know about others but the claims that the young need the money now could equally have referred to many of my generation who married young, had minimal maternity pay, mortgages with raging interest rates, poor wages etc. We worked to create a better life, sadly in doung so we have created (for some) an entitlement society.

Living in London I do get free tube journeys but only free rail trips to the end of the zone system. I could not, for example, travel from London to Hastings for free.

I don't think that it would be that difficult to use means testing to claw back the costs of providing pensioners with free bus passes and tv licences. With the computerised tax system that we now have HMRC could easily do a clawback for those with employment pensions over a specified amount, or for all those who are higher rate tax payers.

I've come rather late to this thread so haven't had time to read them ll, but I am incensed.

I would rather see the House of Lords massively culled, therefore reducing thousands, if not billions in daily allowance(£300), subsidised food and drink, expenses, admin etc. Think of how much could be redirected to the young if that crowd of out of touch, pompous windbags were seriously reduced. Or even got rid of completely.

Items like this infuriate me, as does TV clips of a handful of Lords dozing in chamber while one awake, alert Lord presents an item of some importance

It's not clear to me what's meant by "Limiting free bus passes for the over 65s and winter fuel payments until five years after retirement age" - do they mean those allowances wouldn't come into play for the first 5y after pension age???

I thought that this government seem very attracted to the Australian system and, of course, governments do look at systems around the world. The "Workplace Pension", introduced over recent years, seems to be mimicking the compulsory occupational system the Australians have although we have not reached the percentage they pay as yet.

This made me look at their overall pension system and their State Pension is means tested and I feel this may be what this government would like to work towards. It is not necessarily a bad thing but the devil would, as always, be in the detail. In Australian 80% of the population receive a means-tested, non-contributory, tax funded, age related pension. Their basic pension is higher than ours .

I cannot believe that intelligent people (?) think that all of one age group are rich and all of another are poor. Madness.

Joelsnan you must be younger than me, there was no maternity pay in my day.

Of course I feel sorry for anyone, whatever age, who is struggling but when I think of all the things young people have today which were not available for me I'm afraid my sympathy starts to get a bit hard to come by. It does seem that some think they are entitled to everything and it must be someone else's fault if they don't have everything they want. Someone is using all those chain restaurants, bars and pubs and it doesn't seem to be older people. We only went out for birthdays etc which is probably why there were a lot less restaurants. Some of the phone and TV contracts seem very expensive to me but seem to be 'essential' for young people. Actually we don't have a TV contract.

Nonnie neither I ( nor the report) is arguing for no annual pension increases. It’s the triple lock for pensions that’s totally unfair. And the benefit freeze since 2015 on benefits for working age people is an absolute disgrace.

I am another who won't get my state pension until I'm 67. I don't drive and spend a fortune on bus fares, something I wouldn't be able to afford to do if living on State Pension alone.
I think that the whole "system" needs to be streamlined into one computer file for each person...thus being able to assess who would benefit from help whatever age they were. Everything is too complicated atm.
As for pensioner benefits being taken away so that the young can be educated and housed.....I'd have to think long and hard before answering that one.

If 'rich' people or those whose lifestyle and income means they never apply for a pass or never use it, there is no loss to the economy.
I met two ladies, friends, who looked a bit more senior to me, in the M&S food hall, very nicely made up and well dressed unlike me sans make-up and wearing Primark jeans and sweatshirt.
I initiated a conversation whereby they told me they met every weekday to lunch in M&S or JL and often to dit a bit of shopping. They travelled by car then caught the Guildford Park and Ride bus.
I had not driven but went the whole journey by bus. The bus stops right in town anyway. I would be happy to pay for a day rider ticket or a yearly bus pass but, as others have said, removing it indiscriminately might disadvantage those whose need it most.

^Many have worked from 15 years of age. The youth of today often dont start full time work till they are in their mid 20s and few if any will experience the poverty that many of the older generation worked themselves out of and sacrifices made to achieve this.
However, it appears we are all selfishly sat on our easily come by pots of gold^

A bit of a sweeping generalisation if you don't mind me saying so Joelsnan .

I am 57 and have worked full time from 16 and have taken only the minimum 6 weeks break when I had my 2 children. I will work until I am 67 and 4 months. So in other words I will have worked for 51 years when I eventually (assuming I live long enough) get my state pension. For my own children and those like them, it will be even longer.

ooops messed the quotation marks up .

I've just received my Freedom Pass, in conjunction with my first ever state pension payment. The Freedom Pass enables me to travel for free in London and Greater London. Prior to that I had an Oyster card which has just expired after 5 years and cost a meagre £10 and offered the same benefits. It's an amazing bonus for sure, do I need it, NO, would I prefer some sort of help offered to the beleaguered younger generation to offset the high cost of travel into the capital YES. My son and girlfriend pay well over £4,000 per annum each to commute into London.......it's a lot

^but when I think of all the things young people have today which were not available for me I'm afraid my sympathy starts to get a bit hard to come by.^Nonnie

That's exactly what they are trying to make you feel though isn't it. I think means tested is the way to go.

Will I worry about the top 20% of pensioners would not get a means-tested, non-contributory, tax funded, age related pension - not a lot.

I worry more about those who live on such a low wage that they are never in a position to pay into a pension and those who have a little bit more and therefore miss out because they don't get the benefits they should automatically.

A means-tested pension would be worked out on both income and savings which seems reasonable.

My DD pays a huge amount to travel to and from work in Tyneside too TerriBull . Quite apart from the eyewatering cost of fares, the Tyne and Wear Metro she relies on, is basically "unfit for purpose" as it seems to be off more than its on.

My understanding is that means-testing would be more expensive than the current benefits..

My understanding is that means-testing would be more expensive than the current benefits..

So they would have us believe humptydumpty, but I can't for the life of me see how. If you have less than X coming in then you get Y etc. They manage to sort the tax out, so why not state pensions and benefits?

Maggiemaybe, good post.

I am in the same boat. I have paid into the system all my life but have been denied my state pension and the buss pass that goes with it. Friends a year or so older qualified!

I imagine more pensioners NEED a buss pass than don't, because of their finances. If we start means testing pensioners it will pay people to stay home, not bother to work because they'll get the same as everybody else anyway.

Perhaps those who are well off or feel they don't need the perks of old age like a bus pass, fuel allowance or TV license reduction could opt out via a form. That would be easier to administer. I agree it seems silly to give money to people who find themselves well off in old age. I believe Richard Branson tried to give back his fuel allowance but couldn't!

Every little bit helps those who have to budget and to deny people these small perks when they have reached old age seems very mean, when most elderly people have to live on a much reduced income. Why reduce it even more?

bus, with one S !!!

I agree with Kitty. My DH and I were only saying this morning that the free bus pass could be the end of many bus services as the buses seem to be filled with pensioners. There is nobody paying for the service to run. We definitely do not need the WFA which we give to charity or the free TV licence as we too pay an inordinate amount to Sky each month. Maybe any money saved should be going into the care system to help those who cannot afford to pay for themselves.
Exactly gillybob they seem to be able to means test everything else.

Yes gilly some of the rail networks into London are very unsatisfactory, Southern being one of them I gather, my son is quite lucky with his fortunately. Although I do remember being a commuter myself and getting to the main line station at the end of the day to be met with mass cancellations and wondering how the hell I was going to get home. I feel so sorry for commuters they get such -- a shit deal-- pay so much for the privilege of being packed into carriages like sardines, often unlikely to get a seat.

Would the younger generation like to give a payment to those of us who paid mortgages at a rate of 15% we had no choice but to pay. It was tough but we managed by doing without other things. Today's hard done by younger generation seem to manage to have the latest smart phones more than one holiday and several weekends away and at least one car. Different priorities could give them a better financial footing.

Making pensioner benefits means tested is legitimate issue for debate but highly unlikely to be put into effect. Cash benefits are taxed anyway, bus passes are not used much by the wealthy and means testing TV licence is not realistic.
That aside, elderly votes will be lost on a large scale by any party proposing such a change.

WASPI women living in Manchester can get a travel pass for free travel on the buses and trams. It costs £10.50 as I remember, and can be applied for at TFGM (transport for Greater Manchester). I believe this is possible because of the devolution of greater powers to some of the northern cities.

It's a bit silly to compare 'then and now', it's a completely different world, nonnie, with different norms.