Liberal Democrats

Nonnie
Like millions of others I believed TM when she claimed that she was going to deliver Brexit.
But I changed my mind (about her claim) when she met with Angela Merkel before she met with the cabinet at chequers. I believe the 'plan' hatched then was to 'just keep kicking the van down the road' which is what they're doing now.
How could she deliver Brexit when she had the arch remainer, Ollie Robbins 'advising' her at every negotiation?

Alexa your post is unbelievable.

I find Alexa's post absolutely believeable. I've never understood why poor people vote tory, either.

Grumpa's points:

Dislike of being patronised by well-heeled socialists in the Hampstead/Islington belt;

I completely fail to understand what is 'patronising' about wanting a more fair and equal society for everyone. Particularly one which seeks to mitigate the effects of poverty and offer opportunities to all, rather than just to those who can pay.

Distrust of interfering nanny state wasting the money they pay in direct and indirect taxes;

What on earth is the 'nanny state' when it's at home? The state which aspires to look after all its citizens, including those who are not able to help themselves?

As to 'wasting the money they pay in direct and indirect taxes' this is just economic illiteracy. Money spent on publicly funded services circulates in the economy in just the same way that 'private' money does and comes back to the state via taxation. It actually supports the great many private enterprises which supply the publicly funded services. There are no nationalised suppliers of goods and services to the public sector.

All that privatising public services does is make them more expensive for poor people, because the private sector exists to make a profit on its provision of goods and services, so the profit is included in any charges (train & bus fares, postal services for e.g), increasing prices and making them less accessible to 'the poor'. Interestingly, much of that profit (in the form of dividend) is either taxed at a much lower rate than earned income, 10%, or is sent out of the country to tax havens to avoid paying any tax. Poor people are just paying higher prices to make richer people richer...and deprive the country of taxation income.

Aspiration to make one's own way in the world and be like those people who live in the neighbouring Conservative constituency;

There is absolutely no way that Labour governments have ever frustrated this 'aspiration'. This is because we have always had a mixed economy which allows citizens to set up their own enterprises or to work in whichever sector they choose; public or private.

Irritation at being dismissively referred to as "the poor".

Jeez! When tories so obviously despise poor people and demonise them as idle layabouts who won't get off their backsides to help themselves (plenty of posts to that effect on this forum alone )

And kittylester

For example the Conservatives like to save and Labour like to spend - maybe compromise is the way forward.

Just what are the tories 'saving' for? Christmas? Their summer holidays?

Grumppa, you misquoted me! I never say 'the poor', nor for that matter I never say 'the blind' or 'the deaf' or 'the rich'.
I said "poor people".

I am a solvent and contented poor person . I am a socialist because I believe in equality of opportunity in housing, education, clean, air, building regulations, health care, and legal aid.
I appreciate the informational component of your reply .

petra no, I haven't been 'on another planet'. TM voted remain but has for the last 3 years said she will 'honour the vote' How does that make her a remainer? I agree with Maizie

David it may have been established in the past and I would have agreed with you then but times are very different now. I voted LibDem (I don't usually) as the only way I could send a message to MPs that I don't want to leave the EU. Of course they choose to interpret that to mean I want to leave but they know that is not true.

Kittylester, many people find me and my lack of knowledge unbelievable.

The Netherlands of course have a system of PR. Unless and until,we change our voting system I can’t see how we can move back to more consensus politics

Hear hear grumppa.

The Netherlands always has a coalition government David and it works well. When we lived there we even had a 'purple' government - right and left together and it worked well. Compromise is not always a bad thing.
For example the Conservatives like to save and Labour like to spend - maybe compromise is the way forward.
It is about time we had a party more down the middle instead of the far right and far left. Maybe then we would not be in the mess we are now.

Good post grumppa!

Alexa your post is unbelievable.

I think the other issue with regard to the EU elections is a major one.

The BP has one policy. So it will be clear what individuals want when they vote for the BP.

Every other party, is an established political party with policies covering a broad spectrum.

It is well established that local elections do NOT reflect general election voting despite what the media say. The Liberal party is bound to gain a lot of seats at the next general election, they have so few now they can only improve. They may well hold the balance of power in any new government as may the Greens, DUP or SNP but that is likely to be the nature of politics in the future.

Compromises all the way and I don’t look forward to that it would put us on a par with Italy or Australia.

"I have never understood why poor people vote conservative."

How about these for a few reasons, Alexa?

Dislike of being patronised by well-heeled socialists in the Hampstead/Islington belt;

Distrust of interfering nanny state wasting the money they pay in direct and indirect taxes;

Aspiration to make one's own way in the world and be like those people who live in the neighbouring Conservative constituency;

Irritation at being dismissively referred to as "the poor".

N.B. I have never voted Conservative, and I am not poor, but I do have powers of observation and imagination.

Varian and Whitewave

I agree with what both of you have just said ?

Varian, I like your post because it clearly (and intentionally, I assume) applies the warped logic that some leave politicians/supporters have used when claiming that any vote for either the Tory party or Labour at the last GE shows support for Brexit, which has always been ridiculous! But ridiculous or not, it seems only fair to now apply same logic in the scenario you describe. After all, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, as they say!

Whitewave, I agree like your post because imo what you have said is absolutely correct. That still wouldn't stop me using Varian's argument in some circumstances though - in other words, as a comeback to anyone making the ridiculous claim that I mentioned above ☺

varian no I can’t agree with you there because this vote is not a referendum, and you simply can’t interpret the vote as such. People vote the way they do for all sorts of reasons.

The only way to know if the voter is happy to leave on any deal cobbled together by May, or decided that to inflict as much economic damage on this country as possible through no deal, or that none of it is worth the division and strife, or we should simply revoke, or simply that they are bored stiff with it, or a plague on all your houses, type of referendum

You see? Even in a referendum people will vote for all sorts of reasons. Interpreting the voters intentions is extraordinarily difficult. When politicians claim they know, they are lying yet again.

If the only true leave party is the brexit party and they get over 50% of the votes in the EU elections, that may indicate that most UK citizens want to leave the EU. If they get less than 50% it will show a majority want to Remain.

I have never understood why poor people vote conservative.

MaizieD
On a serious note i really don't think she's thinking clearly now.

I think May only went for 'Remain' because she thought it would be the winning side. If she'd believed in Remain I think she would have handled it completely differently (despite what Leavers think of how she has handled it). She certainly wouldn't have jumped in all gung ho about leaving absolutely everything. Nor would she be ignoring everything she undoubtedly knows about foreign interference and the illegalities of some of the Leave campaign.

Or she has someone holding a gun to her head and threatening to disclose something that would ruin her and the tory party ...

Or she's just plain insane...

Nonnie
Teresa May told us she voted to remain.
As for Corbyn I think there's a clue in the fact that he's been slating the eu ever since he became an MP.
You would have to have been on another planet not to have heard or seen the videos.

I know May and Corbyn are Leavers , which is why neither of them will get my vote.

Day6 you said "Leavers know May and Corbyn are Remainers" and I know others have said it to. How do you '"know" please?

Firecracker why are you so convinced? On what do you base that opinion please? What is better about WTO terms than what we have at the moment?

On this occasion I voted for the Lib Dems. I am fed up of two party tribal politics and also rather sick and tired of May and Corbyn. I was over joyed they both got a kick in the Ballot Box, pity though it was not the GE.
I shall certainly vote LD at the eu election. In fact, I shall do so this afternoon for I have already received my postal vote.

The only way to find out if leave would win, is to have a confirmatory vote which includes all options. Now that many more people (by no means all ) understand the issues we could hope for a more informed vote.

I will vote tactically against labour.

So if lib dem are viable I will go with them
If not, that means cons

So LD have a good shot of getting default tactical votes from people like me who arent overly fond of LD but hate labour more.

If the Brexit party are going to do so well why did Ukip do so badly?

You don’t “win” the EU election as it’s proportional representation. There’s not a Remain party - that vote will be split, so even if Brexit Party is the biggest party with, say, 30% of the votes and therefore gets the most MEPs , the other 6 or however many parties get less than that it doesn’t signify a “win” as 70% will not have voted for them, so if remain supporting parties split the remain vote it’s not the same as a simple leave/ remain choice.