Next Tory Leader.

Thanks GG [bit out of touch today as have been up all night with a sick dog!]….

Sat 08-Jun-19 17:29:34

Labaik Whitewave posted it earlier. It was in the Times.

t.co/uiAeiMXS9t

But I don't think the proposed court case had any chance as it was legally erroneous. (Sat 08-Jun-19 14:36:17)

I thought the judgement had not been published. Can you enlighten us please Callistemon?

Femi!!

Gracesgran have you forgotten that unwritten rule of attacking the post and not the person? (Sat 08-Jun-19 14:13:44)

Callistemon I said, "You must know that your statement is rubbish." Now I don't know about you but in my book "statements" are not people.

I could now make a very personal comment but I will resist.

Feminism has just tweeted that Brexit has finally made sense.

All brexiters were on drugs the whole time.

Yep.

Sat 08-Jun-19 14:11:06

Callistemon - I will say this very slowly:

If they got into power and did not carry out direct promises, then we can say they lied.

If they got into power and did carry out direct promises, then we can't say they lied.

The Labour Party did not get into power.

They could not, therefore, carry out their manifesto and there is therefore no proof that they would or would not have carried out their direct promises so we cannot say ... anything very much ... but we certainly cannot turn something the couldn't and didn't happen into a lie.

I am getting a strong feeling that the sort of brain that is attracted to the Right doesn't do logic!

Interestingly Gove as Secretary of State for education would not as a result of his drug taking past, not have been allowed to teach.

He was grim in his post as education. Pity no one knew then.

Thank you for posting that article, Gracesgran; my partner has just read it out to me and I was wondering if I could find it online. What a vile man he must be when even members of his own party are both appalled and scared of him...

Well yes, frightening.
But I don't think the proposed court case had any chance as it was legally erroneous.

I don't think he will win anyway.

I think you’d be hard pushed to find a potential would be leader as useless as Johnson though.

calliston I know which makes him even more unsuitable.

And, just to be clear, the proposed court case was nothing to do with any of the other points you have listed.

The point was the apparent lies about the EU funding which could be going to fund the NHS which were perpetrated on the referendum campaign trail.

Much like other lies told about student fees, policing costs, reversing privatisation etc etc put about by other politicians.

I don't want him to win Whitewavemark2 - but we could find lists of inappropriate behaviour, anti-Semitic or islamaphobic remarks, racist remarks, lies etc about so many who aspire to high office.

So the questions must be asked when arguing that all politicians lie are

Do all politicians get sacked twice in their careers for lying?
Do all politicians fail as a minister if state?
Do all politicians conspire with a criminal to break a journalists ribs
Do all politicians try to suppress information about a daughter he had fathered?
Do all politicians spout islamaphobic rubbish?
Do all politicians provide embarrassment with their racist remarks?
Are all politicians known for their sheer laziness when in office and being unprepared for meetings etc?

Not sure that they all are, just some and at least one of those is preparing to run for the office of the British PM

God help us.

Gracesgran have you forgotten that unwritten rule of attacking the post and not the person?

No, my post is perfectly logical Gracesgran
Your posts are becoming wilder - which could indicate a lost argument.

As POGS points out, politicians make promises when campaigning - they all do it - and many are not based on facts, statistics and vary from the truth - and they are forgotten when in office.

This is one paragraph from the Matthew Paris piece Whitewave highlighted. This man is through and through Tory and this is what he thinks of their potential leader.

Steady on, you may say. Johnson hasn’t even got through to the last round yet, let alone won it. But the realist in me knows it’s becoming likely. Wise colleagues inform me that his personal unfitness for the post is already “priced in” so we can forget about it. That he’s a habitual liar, a cheat, a conspirator with a criminal pal to have an offending journalist’s ribs broken, a cruel betrayer of the women he seduces, a politician who connived in a bid for a court order to suppress mention of a daughter he fathered, a do-nothing mayor of London and the worst foreign secretary in living memory . . . such truths are apparently already “priced in” to Mr Johnson. One just hopes the actual electorate are informed that his rascality is already “priced in” and they’re not to bother their little heads with such horrors.

This man may be the next leader of the Tory party. He is, apparently, what our right-wing friends see as the best they have.

Callistemon Sat 08-Jun-19 10:39:55

You must know that your statement is rubbish. If I won the lottery at the time of the election I would be much richer now than I am but I didn't and I'm not. You are just making things up.

Not all politicians are sacked for lying.
Not all politicians are known for their incompetence in a senior office of state
Not all politicians are known for their islamaphobia and racist remarks.

Dear lord if politicians could be taken to task for lying Parliament would be empty.

We respect the Referendum result.

Weapons of Mass dedtruction.

We will this that and tuther bull s--t, they ALL do it.

Even Manifestos have proven to be nothing more than more bull s--t.

The difference is when and who the politician is and whether or not we as individuals like them appears to be more of a principle to some rather than accepting it was a dangerous path to have followed.

Where did the crowd funding money come from, who may or may not have been behind trying to ' take down' a politician? Why was only 1 politician taken to court when several others said the same thing? There were many lies told on ' Both' sides so who would/could have been next?

Perversely these are questions often asked on other occasions but oddly not raised over this debacle, I wonder why.

GracesGran - but if more people had believed Jeremy Corbyn's promises re student fees he would have been in the position of being able to renege on that promise.

Making pre-election, pre-referendum promises that do not come to fruition is a fairly common-place occurrence and most voters realise that.

Article in the Times

t.co/uiAeiMXS9t

Are we talking about Boris or Trump now WW?

I’m not sure that Johnson has won a particularly sensible victory. He might well have done better to have gone to court and won his case to prove his innocence in the matter.

Everyone is clear that the message in the bus and loudly proclaimed by Johnson as fact was in fact a lie. As was his assertion that hoards of Turkish citizens were about to de end on us.

The question now will be how much can we believe of anything he says? We know that he has been dismissed twice for lying.

We therefore have the prospect of the next British Prime minister being known throughout the world as a liar, “a vacuous and irresponsible dissembler. and whose Islamaphobia and racism is uttered with a wink and a smirk.”

The whole country would pay dearly for this choice of PM.