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Horrified by Alabama Abortion law

(695 Posts)
NanaandGrampy Wed 15-May-19 15:14:50

I am horrified by the new ruling that makes abortion illegal in the state of Alabama with not even exceptions for rape or incest victims .

The only exception is if the mothers life is endangered . Am I right in thinking this new law puts women back 100 years with no ability to make decisions about their own bodies ?

What are your thoughts ?

GabriellaG54 Sat 18-May-19 00:19:03

In today's news.
Professor Kypros Nicolaides has saved the life of an unborn baby in a ground-breaking operation (in the womb) to correct life-threatening spina bifida, which would have meant paralysis and brain damage.
The mother was offered seversl options including abortion at 20 weeks gestation but she declined, opting for surgery at 27 weeks.
This was 3 decades after the same surgeon saved the mother's life with a blood transfusion through her mother's umbilical cord, itself a pioneering intervention, when she herself was in her mother's womb.
Reasons for caution when considering abortion? Yes.

rosecarmel Sat 18-May-19 00:18:32

Abortion is not a form of contraception- Please, read?

Birth control (contraception) is designed to interfere with the normal process and prevent the pregnancy that could result. There are different kinds of birth control that act at different points in the process, from ovulation, through fertilization, to implantation. Each method has its own side effects and risks. Some methods are more reliable than others.
There are more different types of birth control available today than ever. They can be divided into a few groups based on how they work. These groups include:

Hormonal methods—These use medications (hormones) to prevent ovulation. Hormonal methods include birth control pills (oral contraceptives), Depo Provera injections, and Norplant.
Barrier methods—These methods work by preventing the sperm from getting to and fertilizing the egg. Barrier methods include the condom, diaphragm, and cervical cap. The condom is the only form of birth control that also protects against sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV (the virus that causes AIDS).
Spermicides—These medications kill sperm on contact. Most spermicides contain nonoxynyl-9. Spermicides come in many different forms such as jelly, foam, tablets, and even a transparent film. All are placed in the vagina. Spermicides work best when they are used at the same time as a barrier method.
Intrauterine devices—Intrauterine contraceptive devices (IUDs) are inserted into the uterus, where they stay from one to 10 years. An IUD prevents the fertilized egg from implanting in the lining of the uterus, and may have other effects as well.
Tubal sterilization—Tubal sterilization is a permanent form of contraception for women. Each fallopian tube is either tied or burned closed. The sperm cannot reach the egg, and the egg cannot travel to the uterus.

Vasectomy—is the male form of sterilization, and should also be considered permanent. In vasectomy, the vas defrens, the tiny tubes that carry the sperm into the semen, are cut and tied off. Thus, no sperm can get into the semen.
A newer and somewhat controversial form of birth control is emergency contraception. This type is used after unprotected intercourse and sometimes is referred to as the "morning-after pill".

Unfortunately, there is no perfect form of birth control. Only abstinence (not having sexual intercourse) can protect against unwanted pregnancy with 100% reliability. The failure rates, which means the rates of pregnancy, for most forms of birth control are quite low. However, some forms of birth control are more difficult or inconvenient to use than others. In actual practice, the birth control methods that are more difficult or inconvenient have much higher failure rates because they are not used regularly or as prescribed.

Description
Most forms of birth control have one thing in common. They are only effective if used faithfully. Birth control pills will work only if taken every day; the diaphragm is effective only if used during every episode of sexual intercourse. The same is true for condoms and the cervical cap. Some methods automatically work every day. These methods include Depo Provera, Norplant, the IUD, and tubal sterilization.
There are many different ways to use birth control. They can be divided into several groups:

By mouth (oral)—Birth control pills must be taken by mouth every day.
Injected—Depo Provera is a hormonal medication that is given by injection every three months.
Implanted—Norplant is a long-acting hormonal form of birth control that is implanted under the skin of the upper arm.
Vaginal—Spermicides and barrier methods work in the vagina.
Intra-uterine—The IUD is inserted into the uterus.
Surgical—Tubal sterilization is a form of surgery. A doctor must perform the procedure in a hospital or surgical clinic. Many women need general anesthesia.

The methods of birth control differ from each other in the timing of when they are used. Some methods of birth control must be used specifically at the time of sexual intercourse (condoms, diaphragm, cervical cap, spermicides). Emergency contraception must be started as soon as possible after intercourse and no more than 72 hours after. All other methods of birth control (hormonal methods, IUDs, tubal sterilization) must be working all the time to provide protection.

rosecarmel Sat 18-May-19 00:10:05

Suggesting people with disabilities aren't worth the life they've been given is considerably different than choosing to terminate pregnancy-

Suggesting that parents who chose to end a pregnancy due to severe abnormality aren't worth the life they've been given is also different than choosing to terminate a pregnancy-

One is a medical procedure (abortion) and suggesting any of the above individuals isn't the worth the life they've been given is ignorant-

GracesGranMK3 Fri 17-May-19 23:44:31

Brilliant explanation of the complexities of decision making for everyone who has to contemplate these things Mycat

notanan2 Fri 17-May-19 23:24:31

See body autonomy matters. So if you are opposed to enforced euthenasia (however unlikely that may be) you should be opposed to forced pregnancy.

Mycatisahacker Fri 17-May-19 23:20:14

Gabriella

Hope I spelt it right?

I had an abortion at 17 we had used condoms and got caught out. For your info my second boyfriend and now my dh of 32 years. It was right for us.

We had 2 beautiful lads then when they were 11/10 we got pregnant willingly.

However blood tests said they wete twins but problems! We decided to have an amino because no way would we allow twins with special needs to be left to our lads when we were gone.

I have 2 friends with Down’s syndrome siblings and it’s not been good for them.

Thankfully our girls are ok but if they water not we would have aborted them.

Because we loved the kids we had and I think bringing disabled kids into time world is selfish for us

But absolutely just our view

pinkquartz Fri 17-May-19 23:05:16

I doubt very much that there will ever be an obligation to be "put down " because of illness and disability.
I am close to someone with a disabling illness who wishes very much that we could call for an end to life if we are ill.

Seems that some of us want people to have more options and choices and some other people do not. They want to take control.
I hope that the controllers never get the power. I want people to have options.

GracesGranMK3 Fri 17-May-19 22:43:57

Why is it your job to judge others I wonder, Gabriella? You do seem to see it as your role in life. You judge others on so much, often without any obvious understanding that you too are fallible, frequently and obviously.

agnurse Fri 17-May-19 22:39:46

Many of them may well say they enjoy their life.

To assume that someone with a disability would never be able to enjoy life is extremely ableist thinking. I know a man who has MS and had been in a wheelchair for years until recently. He is adamantly against "medical assistance in dying", predicated on the very real fear that eventually it will become an obligation to end your life if you are disabled.

GabriellaG54 Fri 17-May-19 22:12:18

I wonder what people born alive but with severe disabilities would say to the suggestion that they should have been aborted.

GabriellaG54 Fri 17-May-19 22:07:46

SirChenjin
My name is Gabriella, not Gabrielle
In answer: legally and safely but only in extreme circumstances, as I have said upthread.
Deformed foetus unlikely to survive, danger to mother's health, child rape...that sort of extreme.
Certainly not because a pregnancy is is in any way 'inconvenient' for either parent.
Suppose a woman in a steady relationship, even a long term one, gets pregnant consensually but then some time later decides that she doesn't want a(nother) child and seeks an abortion even though her partner really wants the baby.
What then?
Considering that men have to contribute to a child's upbringing even though they may not want a child but their partner may have falsely said that she is using/ taking contraceptives, this does not seem like equality to me.
The woman has it in her favour in both those scenarios.
Not all men are bullies.
Not all men are softies.
Nor are all women.
Don't forget that there are many women in congress and senior political and influential positions throughout the world and there are many men who don't agree with the Alabama ruling.

Tar and brush comes to mind.

Mycatisahacker Fri 17-May-19 20:59:44

I agree I told my dds tonight about NI they are 20 and had no idea that the laws in NI were different they are horrified

notanan2 Fri 17-May-19 20:24:44

What can we do?

I think we need to stand up for the women on this side of atlantic, im the UK a LOT more. A lot. It is disgusting how they get forgotten and brushed under the carpet. People in the rest of UK need to take a bit more interest in NI.

I see lots of memes on facebook about whats happening across the pond but where is the outrage for our fellow citizens in NI?

That we CAN try to do something about!

Mycatisahacker Fri 17-May-19 20:01:34

Good good!!

Money is probably the only thing these monsters care about

Urmstongran Fri 17-May-19 19:56:15

You ask what can be done Mycat

I’m heartened to read just now in The Guardian that a Maryland official is threatening to disinvest his state’s $52bn pension fund from Alabama businesses.

?

Mycatisahacker Fri 17-May-19 19:43:25

Totally spot on urmstrongrsn

Urmstongran Fri 17-May-19 19:38:57

Have no doubt, wealthy women and the wives, mistresses and daughters of such lawmakers - will always be able to procure safe abortions should they wish. The wrong baby in the wrong womb has often proven to be so inconvenient for conservative politicians.

Poor women and those with little power - will be denied the choices of their wealthy counterparts.

So a return to back street abortions. Banning abortion doesn’t mean less abortions, it just means the same number, but they will be desperately unsafe, and women will die.

Mycatisahacker Fri 17-May-19 19:34:46

What can we do?

Urmstongran Fri 17-May-19 19:29:00

The only 'heartbeat' law needed is this: if a woman has a heartbeat, no-one can interfere with her right to choose what happens to her body.

notanan2 Fri 17-May-19 19:28:45

There is a whole historical mess of abuse via adoption in the US that attitudes to adoptees are hard to unravel. Its not just overseas but also domestic, with a history of women in poverty being told they are selfish unless they give up their baby for a "better life" (which it often isnt) to rich people. Babies were BOUGHT and told to be grateful for it.

Keeping a baby in America without access to healthcare or if you are yourself undocumented etc isnt the option it may be elsewhere in the world.

You can even hire wombs from poor women in the US whereas here surrogacy is structly expenses only

There is very little regard for birth mothers, particularly poor ones, whether they want to abort, keep the baby or have it adopted.

THIS.IS.ABOUT.PUNISHING.WOMEN and keeping them in their place not about giving a damn about the unborn

paddyann Fri 17-May-19 19:25:46

and Missouri has now changed its Abortion laws too !

Mycatisahacker Fri 17-May-19 19:21:46

So many heartbreaking posts

Just keep in mind the very worst thing about this Alabama evil is that it’s nothing to do with concern for unborn children. Nothing! I could accept and do accept anyone’s right to be anti abortion for them totally acceptable.

This is all about men controlling women.

My 20 year old twin dds have just shared the twitter posts of people posting remarks from actual governors in these states regarding rape/abortion and sex.

Honestly I felt weepy but my girls were angry!! This is what we need anger!!! White hot rage to rep our rights.

I can’t post the comments they are too dreadful but feel free to google

Utterly unbelievable

notanan2 Fri 17-May-19 19:19:59

A birth mother will be changed forever both physically and mentally by carrying a child to term. We are not passive incubators.

Iam64 Fri 17-May-19 19:10:14

notanan, thanks for your comments about the failure rate of adoptions in the US. I wonder how many of those failures are because the American parents go abroad and bring babies/ children back who have experienced significant neglect/abuse/been living in institutions and are from totally different cultures, don't speak the language -the list could be much longer than this. Some of those parents will probably have been turned down by home adoption agencies, as happens in other countries.
We expect such a lot from adoptive parents. Parenting is not a walk in the park, much as we love our children. Adoption brings its own challenges as well as its positives.
It irritates me that a small number of posters equate an unwanted pregnancy with a happy adoptive outcome. Haven't those posters read the stories of young women forced to give up their babies, the impact on those young mothers.

Urmstongran Fri 17-May-19 19:07:32

The same way that you are not actually a billionaire- just a potential one- well, the same way a foetus is not a person- just a potential one.

Potentials are nice, we all have a duty to achieve our potential. But, one should never confuse potential for reality.

Very different things.

I feel heartbroken for the women in Alabama now who want an abortion. Backstreet practices will flourish. Poor scared women and girls.

What sickens me is that about 50% of the voters are women.