Horrified by Alabama Abortion law

annepl - can you clarify, do you, or do you not, support this anti abortion legislation that's just been signed in Alabama?

Paddyann I'm not your friend, nor would I want to be a friend to anyone who doesn't allow others to have their viewpoint without resorting to abuse. My friends and I have different views, beliefs but we always treat each other courteously. We would absolutely never use WTF.
People have assumed I support DUP, FGM, that I am against women having power, and more. I never once mentioned Alabama in my posts.
You don't actually know me. You only see your own views and believe you are right about everything.

Star I really have to disagree with you about one thing - ie respecting ann ‘s beliefs. She doesn’t respect mine because she believes that abortion should be illegal and she would take away by choice. There have been some posters on here that have said that personally they wouldn’t have an abortion but believe absolutely in a woman’s right to choose. I respect their views and beliefs but never ever the views of someone who is anti- choice

As far as I know, the Alabama law has been signed by the governor. No veto happening. But it's currently unenforceable from what Iv read b/c it's against the US Constitution (b/c of Roe V. Wade). But if Roe is overturned, then it can go into effect, of course.

I realize that will take time. But perhaps the timing is deliberate? If this goes on long enough, maybe one of the liberal judges, like Ruth Bader Ginsburg, will retire and Trump can appoint another conservative in her place. If the controversy gets to the Court after that, more chance for Roe to be overturned?

www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/in-alabama-and-georgia-republicans-move-to-bar-abortion-and-women-look-for-options-while-they-can?utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_051619&utm_medium=email&bxid=5be9e5e33f92a40469fb217e&cndid=38889213&esrc=&utm_term=TNY_Daily

This is an article from the New Yorker which sums up what it’s like for women in Alabama. ‘Jane’ is a woman who had to go to Florida for an abortion.

The last paragraph is very telling.

‘After the bill passed in Alabama, on Tuesday, Jane texted me. “I’m not surprised, but I am embarrassed to be represented by politicians who would waste time and energy passing a bill they know is unconstitutional,” she wrote. “I worry that this will only make it harder for Alabamians who have had abortions to speak openly about it, because it makes it feel like your own state, your own people, are against you. I happen to know that Alabama is actually filled with wonderful, kind, open-minded people who don’t try to force their personal beliefs on others, but for some reason those voices are not represented in Montgomery.” ‘

I think it speaks to what is wrong with democracy in America, that money and power can buy people office and ride roughshod over what has gone before.

I would like to think that the separation of powers that we have here in the U.K. would not allow such a thing to happen, but these days I’m not so sure.

So agree w/ the point about "rich anti-abortion men" and "discrete abortions." Maybe they just don't want the poor to have the same "rights" they do. Or they're just hypocrites.

Also wondering how many of these men will encourage their sons or grandsons to stand by a woman if she gets pregnant by them and be in that child's life, etc. Or will they be the first to cry, "I bet it's not yours! She's a tramp! Try to stay out of this!"

Thanks Sir! And I agree with you and Mycat - it boggles the mind!

Good points, Eloethan and Maryeliza!

Knickass - Love it! That is, I would if this weren't so sad...

No doubt, there are some women who use abortion as a form of "contraception" - IOWs, rather than taking time to use/find the form of birth control that works for them, they just take their chances and, if they get pregnant, they have an abortion. But I agree w/ Mary that such women would probably not be very good mothers, anyhow.

Also, I don't see how we can know for sure if a woman is doing that or not. We'd have to really be able to see inside a women's heart and mind to know that. Some people "take credit' for things they really didn't do b/c they don't want to admit what's really going on (in this case, maybe forced incest or something). After all, abortion is a medical procedure. How many times would most women want to go through it? Not many I'm sure.

As for agnurse, I imagine she is just speaking up for what she believes in, as we all are. Hopefully, we can all respect each other's beliefs.

If Roe is overturned, and some states are legally allowed to outlaw abortion, I wonder how this would affect IVF in those states. As i understand it, some embryos may be destroyed in the process (if they show deformities, etc.) Would this then become illegal there?

Most articles I’ve read seem to agree that it will take some considerable time for this issue to get to the Supreme Court. Be that as it may, the impact of the fact of the legislation passed in various states is already having an impact without it being law. There are reputable reports of women ringing up clinics in fear that it is already law for example. Others won’t ring but will believe it is no longer available. Also it has changed the tone of the discourse into one that is so much more negative for women. It will facilitate the ‘nibbling away’ of the already poor abortion provision in many states ( there are only 3 clinics in the whole of Alabama for example). No doubt it will energise those disgusting creatures that gather outside such clinics to abuse and bully the women going in. So it would be dangerous to think the issue is on the back burner for the foreseeable - these state victories send a very clear message and America’s anti choice activists will continue at home and abroad with their attempts to control women.

It's a pity these people who care so much about the unborn child don't extend that care to those who are living - or offer proper medical care and financial and practical assistance to women who do not have the ability or means to care for a child properly. But no doubt the prevailing view of these people is to blame the mother for her irresponsibility rather than offer any meaningful help. Child poverty and infant death is, I believe, a significant issue in the US.

If some women use abortion as a form of contraception - and my guess is that very few women do - it suggests to me that they are intellectually, mentally or emotionally ill equipped to bear a child and care for it while in the womb and thereafter.

This sums it up for me

It really is sickening

I haven't had time to read this thread yet but have just seen the first comment from agnurse who believes that a woman who does not want a baby should be forced to continue with pregnancy, labour. I believe a woman should have the right to choose and this law will probably lead to many women taking desperate measures and possibly dying.

No, you're right Starlady - that's absolutely the intention of these rulings. I did read somewhere though that it could take years of legal wrangling to get the Roe v Wade ruling overturned and that this is posturing by Trump and his right wing religious zealots.

It's hard to comprehend that in 2019 women and girls across one of the most advanced nations in the world are facing a return to backstreet abortions. It makes me feel physically sick.

Oh, I see that Roe was mentioned right in the first few posts. Sorry for being redundant!

Whoa! So many posts in such a short time! But, of course, this is a very hot topic!

Have to go soon, so I'm going to go ahead and post w/o reading all the comments so far. So please forgive me if I simply repeat what some others have said. I'll catch up with the rest of the thread later.

I'm another one who is horrified by the Alabama law. I don't care what the percentages are, if even just one woman were to get pregnant by rape or incest, she should be able to get an abortion if she can't face having that child. Do we really want to bring kids into the world whose mothers are going to basically hate them? IMO, that's just cruel.

Beyond that, I think it's between a women and her doctor, in general,, anyhow, but understand and respect the views of those who don't. I wonder, though, how many of those in Alabama who wan this law will also be willing to go the extra mile to help a mum w/ childcare or finances for her unwanted baby. Or would they say, "No! Why should I have to....? Why should my taxes be spent on...?" Often, Iv noticed, the same people who are against abortion, are against helping the reluctant mother and her unwanted child, either personally or via government.

IMO, the purpose of this very strict Alabama law is to instigate a Supreme Court issue in the U.S. Apparently, the law has already been challenged, and I think they knew this would happen. IDK if the case will get all the way to the Supreme Court, but I think the law's proponents are hoping it will.

Since I haven't read al the posts, IDK if it has been mentioned yet, but I heard Missouri has passed a similar law. I imagine a few other states will, as well, and then if it goes to the Supreme Court, they will fight the challenges together. I suspect the ultimate goal is to have the Roe V. Wade ruling overturned. But I could be wrong, of course.

I would agree with that Searchengine.

Exactly - it's growing inside your body. It isn't viable outside of your body however, and unless we are reducing women and girls bodies to mere hosts governed by a law that they have no say over then I absolutely believe that women and girls are entitled to choose whether to continue to with that pregnancy - and not question why they make that choice, but to support them with easy access to contraception, positive sex education and true equality.

I can't see that an unborn baby is part of your body. It's another body growing inside your own.

I defend the right of a woman to have control over whether or not she continues with an unwanted pregnancy. But it is very wrong to treat abortion as an alternative contraceptive.

Although I wouldn’t take tea with either Boris or Farrage

Absolutely PaddyAnn and

I don’t speak to a colleague who questioned my decision to have a amniocentesis after worrying test results and my decision if needed to abort a very deformed foetus! and said ‘oh how can you do that how cruel it’s a baby’

Thankfully baby was fine. Our friendship was dead.

I can disagree politics and religion and stay friends but this topic really defines who you are as a humane person.

Seems reporting rape in Alabama would be a waste of time, because you can't have an abortion anyway. So they eventually catch the father, who has no money to pay? It's a draconian, ghastly law and I for one am bloody glad I don't live in America - especially the mad bible belt states

As it seems to be mainly men that have passed this legislature, I wonder if it would ever have been even thought of if men could become pregnant ?
Not only that, but would they also have had to deal with the censure and name calling etc on women that have an unwanted pregnancy whatever the circumstances ? Doubt it!

like any other contraceptive coils fail sometimes .I know because mine did .Sadly although I would have carried on with the pregnancy it too failed at 10 weeks and the coil which had embedded in my womb had to be removed under general anaesthetic ..I'm afraid I have no sympathy for our friend from NI ,her views and the views of the DUP in the province are a total disgrace to humanity .So I certainly wouldn't apologise to her and she asks if we'd speak to real life friends in this way.Well I dont have real life friends with those views ...they would be long gone if they thought forcing people to carry a pregnancy against their will was right .

Agree wholeheartedly.

It's been very reassuring to see so many women on here putting forward such reasoned, articulate and thoughtful posts in support of young girls and women being able to access safe abortion and to have full body autonomy. Watching what's happening in the USA at the moment is chilling.

And it’s nothing whatsoever to do with concern for the foetus it’s all about controlling women absolutely MaryEliza