Labour /Tory

Not to be trusted are they ? Why bother voting just to keep them in jobs ?

And why pay them, as I wrote in another thread. They're not doing their job as per contract.

Other parties are available. Vote Liberal Democrat to Stop Brexit. No fudging. The message is clear.

Na varian I have to say I like Vince, actually I quite fancy him but not sure they could govern?

Although thinking about it they can’t b much worse.

However their Brexit stance, although clear, isn’t really my cup of tea.

What a crew!

perhaps we've grown out of them both?
Although I never really grew 'into' either.

There is so much more choice nowadays

Yes very true callistermon

Well I won't be bothering, there's nothing to choose between any of them. I'm done with politics in this country pulling the wool over peoples eyes for their own self-serving ego's.

There might be more choice but that says nothing about the quality does it?

as we say here Labour and tory are now two cheeks of the same a.s. or RED and Blue TORIES .Neither seem to have a clue about whats going on or how to fix it an dthen there the awful Farage !!

The turmoil in the Conservative and Labour parties is only a reflection of the turmoil in families and communities across the UK. Whilst the leavers won the vote, it was by quite a small margin, and many people on both "sides" are adamant that they want to break ties completely with the EU/not leave the EU at all - or a modified version of those wishes.

Parties who fully support either leaving or staying obviously come across as less troubled and entirely cohesive because they are only representing one side of the debate.

Perhaps if we'd supported PR instead of the first past the post system which leaves voters in hundreds of constituencies virtually disenfranchised, because a vote only really counts in marginal constituencies, we might not have got into this dreadful mess. How can we tell people that their vote matters when it so palpably doesn't? I've been voting for more than 40 years and only once in all that time has it been for a winning candidate.

We need a more consensual system. It's ridiculous that the party which ends up in government rarely, if ever, has more than 50% of the vote share. We only 'consent' to the result because we know that we'll have a chance of change in a few years time. But it doesn't encourage less determined people to vote...

Maisie you’re not going to get PR both major parties are against it, in any case a permanently hung parliament is not desirable.
It would infact result in in exactly the situation we have now no compromise being acceptable to a majority with every issue.

I think most mature democracies have PR systems of voting not FPTP which leads to what was once described as "elected dictatorship" - where a government supported only by a minority of the population can impose its will on the country for five years, after which it gets voted out and the next lot lurch to the other extreme.

It is true that PR tends to lead to coalitions but surely co-operation and compromise are a good thing and most people agree that the coalition government of 2010-15 was much, much better that the chaotic ideologically driven unadulterated Tory government we have had since then.

I think you've given me a very conventional response, David without any evidence that hung parliaments and coalitions are a bad thing. I firmly agree with varian on this one:

It is true that PR tends to lead to coalitions but surely co-operation and compromise are a good thing..

I'm sorry that you can't see how FPTP effectively disenfranchises people and makes them feel that voting is a waste of time. We don't need 'strong government' that rides roughshod over the wishes of more than half the population. It's about time we grew up and started to look at a more adult way of governing the country.