The Labour Party

Who in the shadow cabinet ? Yes Emily Thornberry and
Keir Starmer but ?

jura2 I completely agree with you. I joined the Labour Party after he was first elected because I was impressed with him at that time. However, I, like many of my Labour friends have become disillusioned with him because of his fence sitting.

I've just returned from lunch with a group of friends, most of whom are left of centre. None of them liked Corbyn and said they wouldn't vote for Labour in the next GE. My argument is that Corbyn has a much better shadow cabinet than the Tories had under TM and now have under BJ and that it is a government that we should be voting for and not just a future PM. I can't see anyone dislodging him as leader at the moment because of the divisions that would cause. In any event the party needs the younger (Momentum perhaps) members to go out campaigning if a GE is called.

I wish somebody male or female would come from out of the shadows and claim the leadership. I have somebody in mind.....lets see.

He is utterly utterly hopeless and too old.

Are there any others on here- who are not anti-Corbyn, who agree is is a great activist, that all the antisemitic accusations against him are nonsense - and yet also agree that it is time for him to make way for someone new- a fresh start- and someone who will be crystal clear in their intentions, off that bleeding fence - and ready to campaign whole-heartedly for the future of the country, out of the grubby hands of Trump and worse.

John McDonnell

"I was up in Liverpool a fortnight ago where Alec McFadden, one of our organisers, launched the Sack Esther McVey Day on her birthday.

"I spoke at a packed public meeting. There was a whole group in the audience that completely kicked off quite critical of the whole concept, because they were arguing 'Why are we sacking her? Why aren't we lynching the bastard?'"

At least the Conservative Party took an interest in doing the right thing.

McDonnell won't even apologise, of course in the Labour Party you are either ' only joking', or ' have been on a journey'.

Worse than Glyn Secker who has been chosen to give training to Labour Party members, he said ‘Jews are in the gutter and part of the problem ‘

A Conservative Lincolnshire councillor has been suspended after tweeting that Labour Party leader, Jeremy Corbyn, “should be swinging from the gallows like Saddam Hussein”.

Councillor Roger Patterson, who is President of the Gainsborough Conservatives and sits on West Lindsey District Council for Scampton ward, sent out the now deleted tweet which said Mr Corbyn “betrayed his country”.

It is good that this Tory councillor has been suspended by his party, but the fact that he could have ever thought it acceptable to use such vile language is a sad reflection on the coarsening of our public discours in recent years. The right wing media have a lot to answer for.

Targeting through the Internet is here to stay, before that it was newspapers/leaflets/pamphlets/tv which didn’t reach as many people.
It also worked both ways....for the Leave campaign and for the Remain Campaign, for a GE ( all parties.)
The people in the UK voted in the way that ultimately they wanted to, not because of pressure from behind the scenes groups but rather despite it.
Targeting will always have a certain amount of success, ( all advertising and marketing does)but I think it is less successful in matters such as a referendum or GE where people have their own reasons for voting a certain way.

until even his 'supporters' begin to see the Emperor has NO clothes on - that he has NO intention whatsoever to have a Deal, any Deal, with the EU- and that he will move on at reckless speed, with the Deal he has been planning with Trump for a very long time- at any cost to our industry, agriculture, standards, safety, NHS, and more ...

Won't be long.

Corbyn's thing is banging on about how bad everything is. With a dull, depressing May in place, it's easy to say this.

The reality for the vast majority is things are actually pretty good. Boris will be positive and optimistic, the majority will like it.

Hard to compete against.

lemongrove, You might be one of the extremely rare group of people whose behaviour is influenced by pure reason, but the vast majority of people aren't. Some of them don't know enough about issues and others are complacent. Some have inbuilt values (one way or the other) and won't be persuaded, even in the face of facts. The VoteLeave campaign recognised from very start that they needed to target people's hearts rather than their brains. They were right and combined that with some very intelligent PR.

Only a million or so people needed to be swayed.

Fennel- agreed, and yet, people who vote should study the issues carefully - and the information they are given should be impartial, factual and checked for being such.

As you know. I grew up and currently live, in a country with a totally different system to the UK FPP and Parliamentary Democracy- Direct Democracy. It truly has its problems too, for the reasons you state. But... at least the Swiss Government provides a comprehensive information brochure for each vote/Referendum- putting forwards pros and cons, and the vote advice of each official party. These are checked by experts for being factual and accurate. And yet it is clear that some people put them in the bin and don't bother, and even if they bother, do not inform themselves beyond the brochure- and it is a concern. I was always taught, adn we wer taught at school, including compulsory lessons to explaint he political system and how it works- that with RIGHTS come RESPONSIBILITY - and informing yourself is on top of the list when you vote.

Yes the only problem with democracy is we all get to vote. We also all get to be targeted by Cambridge Analytica. I looked at apartments, caravans and small houses in a confined area 100 miles away. I spent ten minutes on line this morning. Just caught up with facebook and yes, every 2nd post is an advert for those things. Cookies init.

If we only allowed the vote to those who had studied the issues etc that wouldn't be democracy. It would be meritocracy or aristocracy etc. And I hope none of us want that.

Jura

You have another thread running on Cambridge Analytica and BJ.

Are you of the belief only Leave voters were targeted during the EU Referendum?

Do you honestly believe Political Parties are not ' Harvesting' our information for political gain?

Pull the other one, it’s got bells on it.

In fact, what you are trying to do yourself on here is a version of this!
Insinuating that ‘vulnerable’ people ( do you mean thick?)
Were all got at and swayed to vote Leave, all 17 and a half million.

People are as likely to be swayed by a speech or tv appearance anyway.

Technology to try and influence decisions isn’t new jura
And if you imagine it was only used to try and influence Leave voters, then think again.

Your are probably right, sadly. Especially when very powerful technology, in the hands of the wrong people- targets 'vunerable' people. Even more so- when they have been proven to do so, fraudulently- got away with it- and intend to do the same all over again. We must ensure they do not get away with it this time- and I hope, just hope- it will actually turn out to backfire as many will see they were played like mice with a cat.

Good for you and your husband Jura but I would think you're a minority.
It's the majority who win elections.

Fennel 'I came to the conclusion ages ago that most of us vote the way our heart dictates. Not our brain.
But it's still important to give all adults a vote, to preserve 'democracy' - whatever that is.'

I find this a real insult to so many who take the time to study the issues and try to understand what is at stake, with great care. Personally, and that applies to OH too- we have always voted with both, heart and brain together'. And never voted on 'party' or 'class' lines either.

As for 'democracy' - it is a very vague term- which means something very different depending on which country you live in. The UK is often not considered truly 'democratic' by many other countries- because it is still a Monarchy, and because of the un-elected House of Lords, and its ONE only religion representatives - and because of the First Past the Post system - which basically means that anyone living in a Constituency which does not represent one's views/politics- can vote again and again, knowing full well their vote will go straight into the bin and not be counted.

MaizieD how about your own unevidenced and overblown little rant!

I came to the conclusion ages ago that most of us vote the way our heart dictates. Not our brain.
But it's still important to give all adults a vote, to preserve 'democracy' - whatever that is.