The Labour Party

Grandad - my own friendship group involves a large number of current labour members. My husband is still a member and remains active in our local party. Twenty of us were together recently, shared gloom about austerity and all that accompanies it. Many of that group are former members of the party, only two still are. Only one of that group felt confident she'd vote Labour next time, despite the horror we all feel at the possibility of another conservative government.

Another poster commented earlier of a similar discussion within a group of her friends.

I expect Grandad you will be pleased that so many of us doubters have left the party. Maybe you can dismiss us with the worst term of abuse you seem able to muster, as "Blairites". In order to make positive change, Labour has to win the next election. You may be confident that Jeremy Corbyn can do that, I'm afraid I doubt it.

Iam64 Quote[ Several posters have commented that their friendship groups are discussing desperation with the current leadership and the need for a new leader.] End Quote.

Iam64, I am unsure of what you mean when you state in regard to "Forum members "friendship groups." Are the foregoing Labour Party members or even affiliate members?

I ask that question because a political Party belongs to its members, and in the case of the Labour party also now it's affiliate membership. Therefore if these "friendship groups" are not members or in affiliate membership of the Labour movement, their comments will have no effect on any decisions made or what persons are elected to any office.

The only way for anyone to have a real effect on the actions of the Labour Party is to join the movement, attend the meetings (either physical or online) and make their views known there.

As with the Conservative party, it is the current membership who own the organisation that has chosen Boris Johnson as leader, and I have no doubts that should a leadership challenge emerge in the Labour party then that membership would again elect Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

And that's the way it should be with ALL political parties.

But labour lost , second past the winning line means ‘you lost’ , what use is ‘nearly won’

Anniebach, voters stood in the 2017 General Election where Theresa May believed she would wipe the Labour Party out, and what happened, she lost the Tories their overall Parliamentary majority. That ultimately led to her losing the position of Prime Minister.

Now will the Tories call yet another General Election under the same delusion

The party returned to its core labour roots for the 1983
election, the voters said ‘no thanks’

The Blairites stood in the 1997 election and the voters said
‘Yes please’.

Grandad

" The Blair days are over, the remaining Blairites in the party will soon be shown the door (hopefully) and in that the Labour movement and party has returned to its core root beliefs."
-

So you keep saying. Yep it sure has , the far left days of the 70/80's have returned. You are correct that is why Labour membership became so popular with return members who hailed that era.

So much for Labour being a BROAD CHURCH and by god the call by Corbyn for a KINDER POLITICS melted like snow on a fire and at the same speed.

Grandad

" As for Tom Watson now having any chance of becoming leader, that I feel is pure fantasy due to his recent self inflicted problems that in all probability will result in him losing the position of Deputy Leader and possibly facing deselection by his constituency party. "
---
'RECENT' problems'

The Labour Party was happy to keep him when Watson was involved in the Falkirk vote rigging scandal, when Watson used Parliamentary Privilege to spout his lies over a Westminster peadophile network etc.

Is this not sweet Irony ? At the time of his involvement in the Falkirk debacle Tom Watson said:-

" We've had nearly two decades now of this political media nexus where political leaders think politics has to be compressed in the centre ground. The electoral formula that got NEW LABOUR elected was successful for its times, but we were left stranded in an arid desert of pragmatism, and we need a route map out of that."

Well he got his wish, CORBYN became Leader.

I have just refreshed my memory of the Falkirk voting scandal and KERRY MURPHY was suspended for her part from Labour , she was Tom Watsons office manager and now is one of Corbyns top aids.

Fast forward and now he is one of the Labour MP's who should have been on the Corbyn/Momentum HOSTILE LIST, one of those bloody Blairites it appears he is now thought of / dispensible. Couldn't make it up as they say.!

As for deselections we have been discussing that ever since the Jeremy for Leader/Momentum/Labour Party was established , years of denial by some posters followed but eventually there was no option but believe that was the intention, the game was afoot. If Watson is deselected his Parliamentary seat would be filled by another Momentum member no doubt. After all Momentum/Unions now run the nuts and bolts of the Labour Party.

Watson has made his own choices and ironically I believe Watson has ' possibly ' shot himself in the foot by taking on the GREAT LEADER at the wrong time. Or maybe he has friends in high places hiding under the radar, who knows?

I don’t know one rank and file activist or affiliated member who has been in the Labour Party for over 100 years

It isn't difficult to understand why ''there is so much speculation on this forum in regard to a new Labour Party leader'. Several posters have commented that their friendship groups are discussing desperation with the current leadership and the need for a new leader.

Read a newspaper, listen to a radio phone in, the news etc and the subject of Corbyn's poor leadership of the Labour Party is constantly referred to.

It's interesting that in the desperate times we're now facing, Grandad states that even I the LP loses the next election, its current policies (and leader?) would remain in place. It isn't the policies so much as the leadership that I hear people express genuine concern about. I'm not alone in feeling absolute despair that the focus seems to be on blaming "Blairites" for any difficulties faced by the current leadership. It's like the Conservatives constantly referring to the 'no money left' note, or blaming the LP for the collapse of the economy. Get over this and start to seriously look at what loyal labour voters are saying.

The Labour Party has returned to its core root beliefs?

The 60’s and 70’s ,Harold Wilson , James Callaghan, in the control of the unions, strikes , strikes, strikes, then further left with Michael Foot , this all brought us the Thatcher years.

Then Neil Kinnock, John Smith, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown
which brought the party 3 consecutive general election wins.

The country has moved on since 1945. We do not have
flat caps, pigeon lofts, terrier crossed dogs , workman’s clubs where women were banned.

I cannot understand why there is so much speculation on this forum in regard to a new Labour Party leader. Jeremy Corbyn has stated that he will not be standing down until the Brexit crisis is resolved, and It is very unlikely there will be a vote of no confidence brought forward and held among Labour MPs in the House of Commons.

Even if a vote of no confidence was brought about and commanded a majority, I have no doubt that Corbyn would call a leadership election, stand again himself and win another overwhelming majority by way of the grassroots activists and the affiliate members.

As for Tom Watson now having any chance of becoming leader, that I feel is pure fantasy due to his recent self inflicted problems that in all probability will result in him losing the position of Deputy Leader and possibly facing deselection by his constituency party.

The grassroots membership of the Labour Party and broader movement in the country now have a set of policies that they believe represents true Labour socialism for those working members and their families. Those policies will be placed before the wider electorate in any forthcoming General Election.

Even if the Labour Party were then to lose that election, then I also believe those policies would still remain the same and on offer to the electorate into the future.

Gone are the days of witnessing the Labour executive cosying up to the bankers and multi-national company executives in the hope of getting donations and future jobs, while at the same time totally ignoring the wishes of the rank and file activists and affiliate members who have paid subscriptions to the party funding for over one hundred years.

The Blair days are over, the remaining Blairites in the party will soon be shown the door (hopefully) and in that the Labour movement and party has returned to its core root beliefs.

In the above, the Labour party will remain for the foreseeable future, and that's the way it should be.

The party needs to move from the far left to gain votes around the country.

He will not get away with this and become leader.
A pity, but if he did, it would definitely be an election-loser.

Tom Watson .

Too much baggage but he gets away with it so anything could happen.

He never will be leader

Unfortunately Tom Watson has lost credibility.
He should never become leader.

The Sheffield Hallem bi-election I would think see a Labour loss to Lib Dems. I say Labour loss as O'Mara was sitting as an Independent on leaving Labour.

Whilst I should be sympathetic to the reason why O'Mara is leaving I admit I am struggling as Jared O'Mara should never have been a candidate and dare I say it for Nick Clegg to loose to him was a bit of a travesty.

Now Nick Clegg is earning mega nucks with Facebook I guess he won't be standing but Lib Dems will win I'm sure.

ilovecheese a leader needs to venture further than the north and London.

I am aware of that Anniebach Just pointing out that Jeremy Corbyn has not been in hiding, but there has not been much on the news about these northern events.

The U.K. votes not just the north of England

Dinahmo, those you name have experience , most of the shadow cabinet do not. Tom Watson most certainly will never be leader , John MacDonald would get the backing of the Unions.

No one from the back benches with experience would get the union vote. It will be decided by Momentum and the Unions.

He is not invisible hear in the North. Manchester yesterday and Liverpool the day before.

Iam64 You're right, but who would that younger leader be?

Before the leadership election I had hopes for Chuka Ummuna until he stood down. I've changed my mind about Yvette Cooper and think that she would be good and it's a pity that David Milliband isn't an MP.

Anniebach I think the two you mention are better than any on the Tory front bench. I'd add John McDonnell and Tom Watson. Barry Gardiner. Dianne Abbott - no. Apart from that most of them are OK but, I'm ashamed to say, I do dislike one or two because of their appearance. I can't stnd Rebecca Long Bailey's eyebrows! Mea culpa.

Dinahmo, your experience with left /former labour voters is mirrored across the country. You’re right that labour policies are good but the leader is hopeless. He’s also increasingly invisible and irritable. Is he depressed? I no longer care what his problem is. If he’d any integrity he’d resign and leave room for a younger, more dynamic leader who would seek consensus, be clear about leave or remain (remain for me) and be confident enough to take Flashman
On

Any suggestions jura?

I used to think Keir Starmer, sensible and intelligent, but I'm afraid that he lacks charisma