Can they have it both ways - BMA

So many people on here really to do conform to the Stereotype of the older you get the more right wing you get. Doctors aren’t going to let anyone suffer. Thank goodness. God there are a lot of self important indignant folk on here. Leavers by any chance. Wanting a little insular England!!! Despair!

Cambia- hope you are OK. What's up?

'I found the fact your U.S resident British born son had to pay for a British GP consultation strange . Saying that was it not a prescription which like your son many British residents have to pay for and not the consultation .? '

Expats in the EU currently do not have to pay. But those out of the EU, like the USA - do have to. irrespective of where you were born. Why is it strange to pay for a doctor's time and expertise??? There are btw, many services GPs can charge for, even to UK citizens, like reports for Insurance, or jabs for foreign travel, signing official documents, etc, etc.

You have to wait months, if not years, for some of these procedures, and be referred by a GP. A tourist can't get a major op just like that (clicks fingers).

Yes I too worry about the cost of collecting the money. Isn't it like parking tickets on foreign cars? You know there's no redress if they choose not to pay.

So much of it is down to individual GPs and even how they are feeling on the day! Sounds as if the admin people are tightening up especially in hospitals.

When DD2 fell into a small but empty pool on holiday we were charged about £30 by the doctor who checked her over. Not long after we found she needed specs! She was also prescribed antibiotics for oral thrush in Portugal but a Scottish dentist told us what we really needed and gave us a note for the pharmacist.

The rules for the EU used to be that you paid whatever the country’s citizen paid.

SueDonim
I found the fact your U.S resident British born son had to pay for a British GP consultation strange . Saying that was it not a prescription which like your son many British residents have to pay for and not the consultation .?
I have knowledge of a British BORN person who has lived and worked in the U.S for over twenty years and although having taken 'the oath' being British born have both a British and a US passport which is a small price to pay for the advantages this has.

When abroad we have to pay. Even in EU countries you are usually referred by hotel reception to a private doctor or clinic whether you have health card or not.

We are a pushover as most of health service staff don't want to deal with the question. If only they thought about how much it is costing the NHS and affecting their jobs and resources but they don't seem to get it. No one tells them. BMA are mostly foreign doctors now anyway so there is no way they are going to support it. Although I did read that those who tried to speak out against the motion were shouted down. So they are obviously the lefties proposing this. NHS collapses and Conservatives will get the blame it is a not so quiet way of allowing them to complain re lack of resources.

Oh please tell me this is a joke! I read last month about the cost to the NHS of 'health tourism'. If an announcement of 'come one come all' and get open heart surgery, cataracts. children delivered and new hips - we who have made lifelong contributions will be queuing around the block for years to get help. Why is it that insurance companies cannot and will not pay without up to date contributions and yet this struggling NHS is now free to all? This is absolutely insane, and inviting world wide abuse. Who would blame anyone with cancer, or any serious condition, from coming here to get free help? I would be on a plane like a shot, but how can this be sustained?

They might vote for it, but let's face it, it isn't them that make the financial decisions as far as how a hospital / GP surgery is run!
This "health tourist" thing has been going on for a long time - certainly since the 1970s, to my knowledge, but it is really only since the budgets have been squeezed that it seems to have come to light!
Quite a few hospitals in the UK already have staff in place to make sure that overseas patients are billed for payment of treatment after the allowed emergency treatment.

sarah - medical insurance is not available generally to people from 3rd world countries ... and neither is it available for those who have pre-existing conditions, especially if severe, and especially if elderly.

So, let's imagine your parents have lived abroad most of their lives- and one of them needs treatment that is not available where they live- would you be tempted to sneak them in, perhaps?

I am NOT justifying it - and I have been shocked in the past at the number of expats living abroad who said 'oh I am going back to the UK to have my hip replacement- will be using our daughter's address' etc, etc. But as children, parents, grandparents - I can imagine how sometimes one would put the life of a loved one above the law- somehow.

In hospital in Greece at the moment and my EHIC card has been accepted for my care. Will see if I get a bill at the end but to be honest, just so grateful for the treatment I don’t care!

Sarah that’s a bit of a sweeping statement and probably a bit unfair.

Have those visiting our NHS country never heard of medical insurance?

Aepgirl - it’s a conference motion so won’t change anything. Most coverage I’ve seen doesn’t think it’s a good idea and thinks we should improve our systems for ensuring overseas visitors pay. Somewhere in all this is the difference between a genuine tourist/visitor who has a health emergency and someone who comes deliberately to seek healthcare for a pre-existing condition. I don’t understand how the latter get treatmen.

Callistemon - the vast majority of expats pay tax in their country of residence. Those who were in the Forces or Police pay in UK. Of course no-one has an idea of what will happen post Brexit, especially if No-Deal.

But that made no difference, until recently, to the right of using NHS when resident abroad.

Why does anybody think this is a good decision? We are forever being asked to fundraise for children to have treatment in the US, but are quite happy to provide NHS treatment free to those from overseas.

If they have lost those rights then they should not have to pay UK tax, but tax in their country of residence.

This right, will of course, be lost again in case of No Deal Brexit.

sodapop 'And a high proportion of those ex pats will still pay tax in UK and be in receipt of a UK state pension, Jura2. '

I am of course fully aware of this- as it is our case. Currently, and since recently, UK retirees in the EU are entitled to NHS treament in the UK. Until recently they were not - and yet came to the UK for expensive treatment and operations fraudulently- using a relative's address. Those of us who live in the EU know of many cases where this happened, against the rules and law.

sodapop I agree with your second paragraph, although,I don't know much about ex-pats who pay tax here, presumably on their pensions, so can't comment on that, except that if they pay tax they should be able to use the services which they pay for.

This is money that could be used for treatment which is at present being denied to people resident in the UK, including children.

All your views have been interesting and many valid points made - I think my original thought was that if doctors are the ones to decide that all and sundry are treated in our hospitals regardless of entitlement, then they can hardly complain about underfunding - or can they!

And a high proportion of those ex pats will still pay tax in UK and be in receipt of a UK state pension, Jura2.

I agree payment should be made by all those people not entitled to NHS care but to do that would mean an overhaul of the current system. Doctors, Nurses etc should not be expected to deal with what is in effect an administrative matter.

1000s of expats living in the EU and outside use the NHS when on holiday 'back home' - using a relative's address. Some for extensive and expensive treatment and operations, before going back to their new abode abroad.

During a heated exchange over health tourism, one GP claimed that NHS identity checks not only put patients off seeking help but claimed "people have died" as a result.

After one doctor told the British Medical Association's conference that charging migrants for accessing NHS services was a "fundamentally racist endeavour,” Nick Ferrari spoke to one GP on the issue.

Dr Helen Salisbury said she supported the statement, telling LBC that recently the rules were "really tightened up," with NHS "charging managers" looking around for wards for patients who needed to be charged.

The GP said in some places the charging managers were "demanding people's passports" when they turned up at A&E.

The experienced doctor said she asked "on what basis" were they asking for ID, adding "is it because they don't look British in some way?"

Describing identity checks as the "thin end of the wedge" she asked if they were going to check the passport of everybody.

Claiming that "people have been "deterred from having care," and shockingly saying "people have died as a result of these rules."