Can they have it both ways - BMA

Sodapop I agree such a card would solve a lot our of problems and should be implemented into law. In UK problem is that medics treat all people whether UK citizens or not.

@GrumpyGran8 but international students do have to pay fees up front just EU citizens who do not. They are the ones who sometimes borrow from our government and then go home without paying. What I am saying is that all students should get loans from their own country. That way if they do not repay it does not affect us.

That has not been the case for quite a few years now. Jura2

In France, you also have to have identity cards and provide such when required (used to be until not long ago, that everyone had to carry one with them at all times, and produce to police, etc, on demand).

In France we have our Carte Vitale which we have to produce at all medical appointments. This is proof of the care we are entitled to. It has been suggested that in future this card also provides the EHIC element so that we can get free care in participating countries.
The UK would do well to have a similar card but it would mean a complete overhaul of the system which no Government wants to take on.

The BMA decision was just a conference motion - there is absolutely no way that this will,chsnge Government policy. If anything it has brought the problem to the fore again and the Government and NHS England should be ramping up their efforts to tackle the issues more effectively. The BMA is a trade union - trade union conference motions are not going to chsnge Government policy are they? No matter what the trade union says. I still think some of this as about the bad blood between the BMA and the DH

Rosina - we don’t offer health care to everyone
But that is what the BMA proposes; its leader, Dr Jackie Appleby states that it is 'fundamentally racist' for the NHS to charge overseas visitors for treatment.

There seems to be two aspects to this - collecting the money from individuals who should pay ( non EU visitors ) and secondly invoicing other EU countries for their citizens
( when tourists) health care costs. The first step to this is actually identifying people in both groups. If that doesn’t happen, the whole thing falls - back to ID cards.

Lemongrove I think the problem is the disparity between different trusts in collecting money owed. I really can’t understand why that is - there doesn’t seem to be any overall check on what’s happening across the board. I’d guess it must be top down attitudes as to the importance attached to collecting the money.

16.51.21 Bakingmad yes, absolutely, it shouldn't be beyond us as a country to collect monies owed to the NHS.

Rosina - we don’t offer health care to everyone. The American you mention received emergency care which is free. Of course it could be argued that we could then charge afterwards but that would only work if the person was insured.

I do find it trying that the moment anyone asks where the funding is coming from for this country to offer medical care to the entire planet there are screams of 'Brexiteers', 'Little Englanders' and general suggestions that those who ask are 'nasty people.' No country with any humanity would refuse to help someone who has an accident - unlike America for example . I am proud that we don't start rifling the pockets of a person lying in the road with a tyre mark across their chest, but for goodness sake - how can we offer medical care to everyone, and why should we? Any country is capable of setting up a similar National Insurance scheme - many have. I read of a rich American who had open heart surgery having collapsed while on holiday here; he got his credit card out to pay only to be told that there was no system to take his money. He made large donation to the hospital, but how many do that? Perhaps those who keep banging on about how unpleasant it is to charge foreign patients might like to explain how the funding is to work if we announce everything is free. It's certainly not free to the British public.

Just got out of a hospital in Greece after three days treatment and no charge. The EHIC card does cover this. I have heard that the trouble with the Uk is that they are not efficient enough at charging back to their country any treatment they give to non UK patients. I hope the Greeks do charge the UK as although I live here part of the year, I don’t pay any taxes towards health care.

As you know, Granless- it is illegal to remain registered with your GP when moving abroad- and to use your free prescription card (mine is valid until 2025).

There are children not receiving treatment they need because oif underfunding . Have they totally lost their marbles . It’s just a free state for all .you wouldn’t mind if we were doing well but everything is underfunded but they have money for this

Having worked in the NHS, I know categorically that people who have ‘emigrated’ to Spain for instance, still are registered with their English GP, come to the UK and visit their GP stocking up on certain drugs. Also ..... Asian people do much the same when visiting relatives in the UK ..... before anyone slates me, no, I’m not racist. Our NHS is so abused. I could go one ...... but won’t.

We don’t provide an international health service for the rest of the world. It’s more complex than that and there are different categories of entitlement. The fundamental problem is properly implementing the current legislation re paying upfront for non urgent and non emergency health care and for hospitals to be identifying and ensuring who should be paying. Because in most other countries payments are made at the time of treatment as a rule ( even if claimed back afterwards) they have systems in place in a way we don’t. Also I think most other countries have national ID which again we don’t. Of course it needs tightening up but I think there is some exaggeration by some posters on here.

If the doctors don't want non residents to be charged for any medical treatment, perhaps they would like to cover the cost of their care themselves because it is certainly not fair for tax payers to provide an international health service for the rest of the world.

EHIC btw, is for emergency care only.

Vivian - it is now called EHIC - they will no longer be valid for Brits abroad, nor for EU citizens in UK.

There are a lot more Brits abroad in the EU, than t'other way round.

All non-British subjects entering this Country should have to produce proof of health insurance before being allowed in. For the time being, I suppose we will have to allow members of the EU in, but then they should have an European Medical card, E11 that was. Not sure what is now.

In the USA you will not get treatment unless you can prove that you can pay.

Time we got strong and not let foreigners take the Mickey. We are far too soft.

I thought that there was clear legislation and guidance on charging and that for non-urgent, non- emergency care it has to be paid upfront. That’s why the Windrush man couldn’t have his cancer treatment. So maybe the problem is with not all hospitals implementing the system as they should. I can see that chasing debts once someone has returned home can be costly and difficult especially if the person concerned simply can’t afford it.

It is not a problem as far as I am concerned, I have 2 passports and 1 identity card- 2 EHICs and my medical Insurance card.

Jura 2
Good point but surely it’s time that we did for this and other reasons. I have lived abroad and never found it a problem, carrying ID Why is it a problem here?

Bakingmad- how could they do that as long as we don't have compulsory ID?