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Happy and Prosperous

(25 Posts)
Jessity Sun 30-Jun-19 22:44:43

A comment in readers’ letters in the Sunday paper made me rather sad. It said

“In 2015 we were a happy and prosperous nation”

In 2019 families and friends are divided and even on Gransnet where one might reasonably have expected mature, informed but also polite and reasoned discussion, it is impossible to achieve that.

This thread like others will descend into abuse. I think I shall retreat back to Soop’s Kitchen.

merlotgran Sun 30-Jun-19 22:52:24

With respect, why did you start it then?

Nico97 Sun 30-Jun-19 23:03:48

You beat me to it Merlotgran. Why not ask for the thread to be removed if you think it's going to descend into abuse Jessity ?

Jessity Mon 01-Jul-19 05:42:38

Why did I start it?

Others may not have seen the comment and might find it thought-provoking, as I did.

I didn’t realise at the time that a consequence of the Referendum would be lasting dissension, divisions between family and friends and such levels of abuse. Did you foresee this?

Why do I think I may want to retreat?

I would like to hear other views about why a nation which had been able to discuss, explain and disagree rationally about strongly held views seems now to be at each other’s throats. And what, if anything, any of us as individuals can do.

I’d love to hear the thoughts of others but I don’t find it interesting when discussion turns to abuse as seems to have become normal in the media, on forums such as this and in everyday life.

mumofmadboys Mon 01-Jul-19 06:32:41

I don't think in 2015 we were a happy and prosperous nation I'm afraid.

kittylester Mon 01-Jul-19 06:43:59

Nor do I momb.

Sara65 Mon 01-Jul-19 06:45:57

There’s a lot wrong with our country, particularly at the moment with all the uncertainty around Brexit

But it’s still a decent place to live for most of us. I know we could do better , I’m aware of families struggling even though they are working, schools struggling for funding, our old people unable to get adequate social care

But we seem determined to make the worst of everything, instead of everyone putting their heads together to try and come up with solutions to the real problems, politicians seem only to want to divide the country even further.

I don’t think things were perfect in 2015, but I don’t think they’re that bad now

rosecarmel Mon 01-Jul-19 07:05:52

In the US, Democrats exhibited smugness, the Republicans derision- Both were infectious-

MaizieD Mon 01-Jul-19 08:30:26

I agree with momb and kitty. I don't think we were 'happy and prosperous' in 2015. I think that the anger and frustration that the Brexit vote has exposed was all there simmering away under the surface and largely ignored.

Daisymae Mon 01-Jul-19 08:38:38

Oh yes, they were the good old days!

toscalily Mon 01-Jul-19 10:03:28

Possibly the writer of the letter was fortunate in that their personal situation made them feel that was the case. If the majority not the minority had felt that way it is unlikely that we would have had a referendum, therefore, I think that is a rather blinkered view of 2015.

NfkDumpling Mon 01-Jul-19 10:13:46

I agree with Sara and would add the media to politicians trying to divide the country. They always look on the black side and how awful Britain is. Its one of the best countries to live in - otherwise why are all these immigrants still trying to get here despite us wanting to go it alone (or because of?).

Gonegirl Mon 01-Jul-19 10:28:55

We were probably happier and more prosperous in 2015 than we will be with what's to come in the near future. The referendum has caused far too much trouble to have been worth it.

EllanVannin Mon 01-Jul-19 10:53:55

Even the weather joins in----like winter here in the NW and South of us are enjoying summer.
We can't do anything about anything except to accept what we have against others who have nothing !!

EllanVannin Mon 01-Jul-19 10:55:35

If you're not happy with your lot then that's your fault, nobody else's. The world owes no-one a living !!

Dinahmo Mon 01-Jul-19 19:00:06

toscalily I don't think the referendum was called because of the disaffection in the country but rather because of the disaffection in the Tory party. Some Tory MPs have been trying for years to get us out of Europe (almost since we joined the EU) and this was Cameron's way to try to resolve the issue. Sadly it backfired. The Tories didn't care about the ordinary people only about getting the deficit down. Had they cared, we would not have had the austerity measures which have caused so many problems.

SueDonim Mon 01-Jul-19 19:17:27

I agree with Mumofmadboys, too. The country was still suffering from the effects of the financial meltdown and here in Scotland we were and still are divided by the independence referendum. Not that things are any better now but let's not look back with rose-coloured spectacles.

Day6 Mon 01-Jul-19 19:23:04

I didn’t realise at the time that a consequence of the Referendum would be lasting dissension, divisions between family and friends and such levels of abuse. Did you foresee this?

I have made this point before.

The whole Brexit situation has been kept alive and kicking by Remain voters, some of whom refused to accept the result of the referendum.

They and Remain media have kept the pot bubbling. The government hasn't helped with it's lousy negotiations for the UK over three years, but is that a reason to fall into a pit of despair Jessity?

If it has a great affect on you, then OK, but you'd be the first person I know to be losing sleep over House of Commons machinations.

Our politicians make me angry - what's new? People are disturbed and angry about the way we have made no Brexit headway, but it's hardly affecting this pensioners daily life. Politicians get paid a great deal of money to take that strain. If they want to play silly buggers in Westminster, let them. (They could lose their seats come the next GE, but that is something MPs have to to consider.)

It is in Remain interests to ensure they spread the news that there is discord and families are at each other's throats.

For a minority, that may be the case, but online keyboard warriors tend to be mild mannered and polite in public life and very few are likely to accost or insult people who hold views different from theirs. Online they might curse away or belittle and sneer, but ask yourself Jessity - is your family torn apart by politics?

No, thought not. Neither is mine.

The only time I ever get involved in political discussion tends to be online. My home life and family life and social life is interesting. Some people in my life may hold different views from mine, but nothing is heated and no one falls out.

That headline is designed to have people like you fall into the trap that we live in some sort of dystopian, warring world, and that society cannot function since the referendum, etc, etc, etc. Doom and gloom.

Remainers WANT you to take a gloomy view. Was life better in 2015? I don't recall. Lots has happened since 2015 to make me believe life is good. Some things have happened which have saddened me, or worried me. Guess what - the referendum and leaving the trading bloc that is the EU haven't been at the top of my worry list.

Don't be taken in by the opinions of journalists until you have worked out their bias.

Callistemon Mon 01-Jul-19 19:43:09

There doesn't seem to be rancour and dissension in our family or friendship group.

Things have not changed at all for us as far as prosperity and happiness is concerned, things jog on just the same.

As for wider family, some have better jobs now, one or two having been made redundant in about 2014/15.
I can only speak for ourselves and our wider community. Shops have closed (due to the internet phenomenon we were told). Others have opened. Everywhere we go seems to be busy with shoppers, people eating out, visiting attractions.

Nothing seems any different than it was.
Perhaps it is for others, I don't know.

GrandmaKT Mon 01-Jul-19 20:03:53

Thanks for making the point Dianahmo that it wasn't the general population, but the Tory party that called for and brought about the referendum. It's strange to think about that now that we are all so entrenched in our views - only 3 years ago the vast majority never gave a thought to our EU membership.
It has made a difference to our family and friends relationships. Rather than argue though, we just don't talk about it. It is sad - I know my father and his sister (both late 80s) voted leave. We have always thought and voted similarly in the past and I would love to understand why they voted this way, but it only ends in argument, so we just don't bother now.
Day6 you say it is in the remain interests to spread discord. I hope you understand that we continue to fight and to protest only because we are so convinced that leaving the EU, particularly with no deal is a massive mistake from which there will be no turning back. In general elections, for example, the party I voted for has not got in many times and I just accept it and get on with my life. Brexit is so much bigger and more far-reaching than that, I and many other remainers feel we have to keep on debating and protesting.

Sara65 Mon 01-Jul-19 20:13:03

My family all voted to remain, but accept that we democratically voted to leave, so we need to respect that result, however unpalatable, and just get on with it

Our closest friends, who we’ve always been politically in step with before, voted leave, we just don’t talk about it, our friendship is more important

EllanVannin Mon 01-Jul-19 22:03:21

None of my family or friends are bothered one way or the other, it's never been a talking point. The subject has never been broached.

Why should it cause divisions ? It's not worth arguing about.

MaizieD Mon 01-Jul-19 22:06:04

The whole Brexit situation has been kept alive and kicking by Remain voters, some of whom refused to accept the result of the referendum.

I think that should tell you something quite significant, Day6.

It should tell you that the response to the result of a referendum which has the potential to cause radical change for many people's entire lifetime is rather different from the response to a closely run election result which can be overturned within a few years. It tells you that people were angry that the referendum was so poorly thought out that no super majority was required for approval of such a radical change; indeed, that Parliament was assured that a super majority wasn't required because the result would only be advisory.

It tells you that people who voted Remain were deeply offended at being called 'citizens of nowhere' and at no attempt whatsoever was made to effect any sort of reconciliation between both sides.

The Remain voters were clearly not convinced by the arguments against the EU before the referendum and the narrow margin of 'victory' should have alerted the government to the need to persuade rather than impose. To the need to have a carefully worked out plan for leaving; as it very quickly became apparent that there was none and that no-one, on either side, but particularly the Leavers, really had any idea how to proceed.

There's much more to be said but for now I'll remind those of you whingeing about Remainers trying to spoil your wonderful Brexit that the right to oppose is an essential part of democracy and if Remainers chose to exercise that right you just have to put up with it...

Dinahmo Mon 01-Jul-19 22:54:05

I know a few people here in France who voted to leave - a common comment was "we'll be OK. The Germans want to sell us their cars" My answer to this is that anyone who can afford a new Mercedes, Audi or BMW can probably afford the additional tariffs.

My sister in law voted to leave - despite her husband having foreign care workers, at home and when he went into a home. She couldn't understand that the Polish man, who came every week to look after her husband so that she had some time for herself was angry when she told him about her vote. Her children don't talk to her now.

A close friend living in England was accosted by a woman in a supermarket car park and accused of being unpatriotic because he was wearing an EU badge. He explained why is supported Remain and asked her what her family thought. She replied, rather sadly, that her grandson no longer spoke to her.

I can think of many more examples but won't bore you with them.

Callistemon Mon 01-Jul-19 23:08:23

Her children don't talk to her now
They sound like rather nasty people
Those are the kind of families who would cut off their parents/grandparents for other reasons too - the ones we read about all too often, sadly, on MN and GN.