Inheritance tax

It is worth remembering that the last Duke of Westminster was known for his charitable and philanthropic work.

When I was working I used to visit my company's offices in Westminster. Beside it was a council estate that a previous Duke of Westminster had built to house working people and was later handed to the local council.

In the 1980s Lady Porter, daughter of the Tesco founder and friend Mrs Thatcher, then leader of Westminster Council wanted to sell this estate for conversion into luxury flats. The late Duke of Westminster took her to court, saying that these flats were built for working people, I think the original phrase, was 'artisans', and that the terms of the transfer from the Westminsters to the council meant that if there was any attempt to change their use, the estate should be returned to the Westminsters. He won and the estate continues to provide homes for lower income tenants.

Lady Porter was later accused of gerrymandering, fiddling with council housing to ensure the Conservatives kept control of the council. She was fined about £42 million, but went to live abroad for about 20 years. She came back about 10 years ago, having negotiated the payment down to £12 million claiming that all her money was tied up in trusts, which paid her a discretionary income and she had no capital to pay the fine out of. There are suggestions it is, in fact hidden in various offshore tax havens.

This is why I never shop inTesco if I can avoid it.

I've now had a quick look at the Grosvenor Estate situation. After the second duke died (worth £25 million: death duties £17 million) the family set up the first of several settlements, transferring assets into those settlements. Generally these Estates are set up to ensure that the family assets are maintained and not dispersed.

When the 6th Duke died in 2016 he left about £600 million to his wife (free of IHT - transfers between husbands and wives exempt). When she dies there will be IHT to pay on her own estate.

Many people with a lot less money than the Grosvenors have transferred assets to an Estate but it is increasingly less tax effective to do so.

I intend to spend every penny I have before I am of the age to die or need care. My FiL is having to spend his life savings on his care and it breaks his heart, he can’t even give his GC money as it will go against him when his money eventually runs out. My Sister has never done a days work in her life and is in a similar care home paying fuck all. Sorry for swearing but it gets my goat? As for inheritance tax, that money has already been taxed at source surely.

Dinahmo I have just read the same article.

Oldwoman70 Why did you say it was John Mcdonnell's idea? Was it reported that way in something you had read?

paddyann that is a cop out. I couldn't care less what other people are doing, rich or poor, I do what I know is the right thing and that is that.

I mentioned above that George Monbiot put forward ideas to the Labour Party and I have now looked further into it. He has written today in the Guardian that a month ago he and 6 others published a report commissioned by the Labour Party entitled Land for the Many which proposed several policies that would be of benefit to the majority of the population.

The Mail on Sunday wrote that there are proposals for CGT on peoples main homes and also for a garden tax. GM states that these ideas were considered and rejected.

The Telegraph stated that these policies showed that keeping the hard left Labour Party out of office was a deadly serious matter for millions of voters.

80% of the press is owned by a small handful of corporations which are controlled by billionaires with an axe to grind. The Telegraph and Spectator are owned by the Barclay Brothers. News UK (Rupert Murdoch) owns the Sun, the Times, the Sunday Times and the TLS. The Daily Mail and General Trust (Lord Rothermere) owns the Daily Mail. Reach PLC - various former names, including Trinity Mirror and Mirror Group also includes the Daily and Sunday Express, the Daily Star and OK. The Express Group was formerly owned by Richard Desmond who is no longer involved in publishing. All of these men are large landowners, as is Paul Dacre, former Express editor, who owns a 17,000 acre estate in Scotland.

It is these men, or rather their employees, who are peddling this misinformation, which many of you appear to believe.

We could say that about virtually any tax though paddyann. Why do I pay full PAYE on every penny I earn when the likes of Gary Lineker, Lorraine Kelly and their pals manage to avoid it ?

Why is my council tax twice that of someone in a much more valuable house?

Plenty more examples.

as soon as the Duke of Westminster stumps up the millions ..if not more HE avoided than I'll be happy for my kids to do the same .Meantime they're not taking what I've worked for while he's allowed to get off scot free !!

Which is even better then surely ? Estate equals £500k then inheritors get their share after IT. Still can't see the problem.

More interesting reading

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/03/land-reform-brute-power-billionaire-press-attacks

The revenue charge The IT to the estate, not the inheritors. They simply pick up the remaining asset in the form of cash or whatever.

I don’t think any of it has been decided or even thought out properly yet jura .

Can anyone explain what the problem is with paying IT please? If for arguments sake I had £500k to leave my children ( I don’t btw) why should they not have to pay IT on what is effectively a windfall/ money for nothing ?

As an aside, is that 125.00 per child, or to be split between children. And what if grand-children benefit?

Of course this will end up in tribal politics MarthaBeck whereas could it go ?

Willow500 You have received tax relief on payments into your pension plan which is why you are taxed on the income from that plan.

As I've mentioned in another topic we bought a house in London in 1978/9 for £18,500 and renovated it - cost then of around £10,000. Today it's worth £1.5 million but we no longer live in it (In case anyone thinks I'm sitting on lots of money I'm not. Sold it in 1986 for £84,000) My point is that, if we hadn't moved, we would be worth £1.5 million, most of which had nothing to do with us. We didn't earn it. So why shouldn't the government take IHT from our estate. Surely it's better than paying income tax.

That said, if I had children I would have divested myself of it some years ago and given a chunk away (had I stayed in it)

More to the point - these are ideas of George Monbiot which he presented to the Labour Party, as many other people are doing. It's also possible that he is proposing a ceiling on lifetime gifts which are different to dispositions on death.

Hope we are not going to adopt Tribal political attitudes, he is passing early comments on a consultation document. It is not as I understand it an approved Labour Party policy. At least it is being discussed in the public domain and not just being imposed by Leaders.

It's year's since I voted Labour, so please no
accusation of taking LW or any other stances.

I agree with you, gillybob and that is why this scheme has flaws and would be an election loser.

There is a vast difference between the vastly wealthy and ordinary house owners and we can all see that and that is the point we are discussing.
The £125,000 keeps being brought up because this is what we were told the threshold could be under these proposals.

A fairly ordinary 4 bedroomed detached house on an estate near here, miles from London and the SE, would probably go for around £400,000 - and rising.

Downsize to release money to help your children through college, on to the housing ladder?
McDonnell will be after them for tax on that too after you've departed this earth.

Some reading about IT

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/06/03/inheritance-tax-is-a-giant-wheeze-to-help-the-really-wealthy-whilst-pretending-otherwise/

Oh sorry, it isnt just me you are talking to is it????

That’s not true OldWoman someone with a house typically worth £400k or more would be seen as vastly wealthy here in my town . The attitude being you could always sell it .

No!! I know, but that is not what I’m saying is it!

I don't think anyone whose only asset is their home can be classed as "vastly wealthy"

oldwoman but nothing has been decided yet it is all up for debate.

One persons idea of what represents “vast wealth” is very different from another’s though OldWoman .

Maybe I worded it badly whitewave I’m sure you know what I meant Why should someone who lives in a rented LA house or in a private house typically worth around £80-100k care that the inheritance tax was £125k or even less ? They wouldn’t . In fact “ bring it on” would spring to mind.

Hardly surprising when we see the ever increasing gap in wealth .