Is this the face of fascism?

A many-faceted personality (let's add faux-naive) and yet with such a narrow focus!
However back in the real world there's no avoiding the utter shambles created by the instigators and supporters of brexit, propped up by the abominable Trump who adds to the chaos while rubbing his greedy little hands together and preparing to groom his new lapdog Boz or Jez!

Thank you, mcem for putting my thoughts into words!

Ooh I must be cleverer than I give myself credit for! Unless of course I’m not.
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Classic deflection tactic Ug.
Pick up on a minor aside in order to avoid the thrust of the post!

Re Farage.

A smiling assassin....

I like it.
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Ug I am well aware of the ebb and flow of the usage of archaic language but say again that currently the
use of 'gotten' is primarily USA based. I am equally aware that it is cropping up here but have been aware of it in the context of youngsters attempting to sound 'cool'.

Jabberwok, the answer isn’t racism and further oppression of desperate people. We in the UK, the US and much of Europe have been fortunate in recent years to be safe, well fed, warm and housed. Yes we have poverty, homelessness, mh problems but we aren’t in s war torn state in Africa ir the Middle East.
We should not resort to victim blaming, to suggesting desperate people stay in their dangerous countries and leave us alone.

We've become a country that desperate people are using more and more desperate methods to enter. This perhaps is a reflection on how very dreadful a lot of countries are even in Europe, more than how benign we are! but even so it's not a good state of affairs and what the answer is, who knows!

Well mcem The huge list of example sentences in the OED suggests that gotten reigned supreme until the late 1500s, when got increasingly appeared in its place. Shakespeare and Hobbes used both. Got seems to have overtaken gotten around 1700.

I rest my case m’lud,
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Maybe Lessismore we should turn your statement around. Instead of saying what have we become, perhaps we should be thinking ‘what have they become?’ As in these countries who so oppress their own citizens?

It is beyond awful that corrupt and inhumane governments in some countries treat their fellow men so brutally.

But we cannot (nor can any country in my opinion) address the wrongs of the world by simply having an open door policy. Economic migrants are not the same as refugees.

I have always assumed that Trump senior entered the US legally. I have no idea whether the Congresswoman from Somalia was descended from legal immigrants, but she is now a legal representative of her American people in Congress. Is that not legitimate enough for Trump or Urmstongran? "Where she came from" is the US of A, as much so as the current President. He was way outside his remit or even common politeness to tell her to go back home. If that is how he treats his Congresswomen, no wonder he also has a reputation for treating fotreigners and women as he does.

mcem totally agree. The support of this vile sexist emotionally immature bully is beyond belief and anyone who thinks his behaviour is in any way acceptable in what was once a civilised society really needs to take a good look at themselves. It is worth noting that in the UK this monster would not even qualify to stand as a parish councillor due to his multiple bankruptcies.

Whitewave and Iam thank you for those powerful messages .
This thread has brought us some excellent, logical principled posts...............
and then there are those from Ug.
A poster whose political views I'll never agree with but whose posts I generally find well-expressed. But now they've sadly degenerated to this level.
Pro Trump, pro racism and blindly pro USA (including Americanisms like the use of 'gotten').
A government rife with corruption, but since that corruption is less obvious and so far less bloody than that of Somalia it's acceptable!
To walk away from EU and into the grasp of Trump and co is utter madness!

Can you imagine the sort of desperation that makes people try to cross oceans in rubber dinghies ,climb under airplane carriages, freeze to death in lorries and so on.

What have we become.

"The right paperwork"
That would mean my friends 19 year old great gran and her 14 year old sister would have been turned away. They made the journey from Russia to America together when their parents sent them away to escape more pogroms against Jewish people. The wanted their children to live. They were allowed into the US from Ellis Island in the spirit of that message on the SoL. They sewed clothes and eventually married and had children. Their ancestors all continue to contribute to the USA.
I'm surprised anyone can add a smiley face to a discussion about children in camps, separated from their parents who after all, were only doing what my friends ancestors did, trying to stay alive, have a better life and yes, contribute to the country they chose to escape to.

Many of the migrants at the border are from countries other than Mexico - Honduras, El Salvador etc where levels of poverty and violence, especially against women, are endemic - surely some of you have seen TV coverage of their lives?

So what UG. He is the President of another country and would screw us into the ground as soon as he had the chance to do so.

Why the obsession with a man that less than half his country wanted. I don't believe you are so far to the right you would follow any fascist available but why sing the praises of another countries leader who is of that ilk?

The face of racism in America and what we are hurtling towards
I recognise so much in this that Britain is emulating. It is shattering.

It's the racism. But it's not just the racism. It's sex crimes. But it's not just the sex crimes. It's the concentration camps. But it's not just the concentration camps. It's the corruption. But it's not just the corruption.

It's being a traitor. But it's not just being a traitor. It's the obstruction of justice but its not just the obstruction of justice. It's the attacks on rule of law. But it's not just the attacks on the rule of law. It's the assault on freedom of the press.

But it's not just the assault on freedom of the press. It's the pathological lying. But it's not just the pathological lying. It's the unfitness for office. But it's not just the unfitness for office. It's the incompetence. But it's not just the incompetence.

It's the attacks on our most important allies and alliances. But it's not just the attacks on most important allies and alliances. It's the systematic destruction of our environment. But it's not just the systematic destruction of our environment.

It's the violation of international treaties and agreements. But it is not just the violation of international treaties and agreements. It's the embrace of our enemies. But it is not just the embrace of our enemies.

It's the defense of murdering dictators but it is not just the defense of murdering dictators. It is the serial undermining of our national security. But it is not just the serial undermining of our national security. It is the nepotism. But it's not just the nepotism.

It's the attacks on our federal law enforcement and intelligence communities. But it is not just the attacks on our federal law enforcement and intelligence communities. It's the fiscal recklessness. But it's not just the fiscal recklessness.

t's the degradation of the office and of public discourse in America. But it's not just the degradation of the office and of public discourse in America. It's the support of Nazis and white supremacists. But it's not just the support of Nazis and white supremacists.

It's the dead in Puerto Rico and the at the border. But it's not just the dead in Puerto Rico and at the border. It's turning the US government into a criminal conspiracy to empower and enrich the president and his supporters.

But it's not just the turning the US government into a criminal conspiracy to empower and enrich the president and his supporters. It's weaponization of politics in America to attack the weak. But it's not just the weaponization of American politics to attack the weak.

It's all these things together and the threat of worse to come. It is the damage that can not be undone. It is pathology that has overtaken our politics and our society, the revelation that 40 percent of the population and an entire political party are profoundly immoral.

It is a disease that has infected our system and is killing it. At the moment, we still have the wherewithal to fight back. But even those who recognize the dangers of this litany of crimes are proving too complacent, too inert in the face of this threat.

It is one of those moments in the history of a country when there is a choice to be made, a choice between having a future and not, between growth and decay, between democracy and oligarchy, between what we dreamt of being and what even our founders feared we might become.

The litany of crises and crimes is so long that we are becoming numb. You have heard of the fog of war. This is the fog of Trump. The volume of wrongs becomes its own defense. Is the president accused of being a rapist? Well, then remind them he is a racist and they'll forget.

This is a moment for leaders to step up. To challenge each of these abuses via every legal means available. To organize and draw attention to them. To blow the whistle if you are in government and you are being asked to violate your oath. To resist and refuse to be complicit.

If you can't do those things that make your voice heard and join a movement, support a political candidate, donate money, register voters, fight voter suppression. But whatever you do, resist becoming numb. Resist the temptation to let the recitation of old crimes and new...
...become a deadening drone.

Every one matters in times like these. Every one must stand up for what is right. In their homes. In their schools. In the workplace. In their churches and synagogues and mosques.
We are approaching a great national decision about whether the American experiment will succeed or fail, whether this moment does what two world wars, a civil war and countless past misjudgments and missteps could not.
We will make it together, resist, offer a better alternative, embrace that alternative and the best leaders we can find...or succumb, let the inertia of some among us mark the end of what for two and half centuries was an idea so compelling it inspired the world.

David Rothkopf

I know about the inscription on the SoL Iam64
I think (but prove me wrong) that Trump’s parents were not illegal immigrants.
Big difference eh?
They had the right paperwork.
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'Why can't the Mexicans stay and tr to change their country from within". - I'd suggest you look at a map and do some research into why people are prepared to risk life and limb urmstongran, if you really don't understand.

Remember the 1930's and the exodus of Jewish children on the kinder transport? There was a reason for that. I'm not suggesting the same reason is behind the exodus from Mexico but crime, poverty, desperation will lead people to take desperate steps.

He’s quick at grasping a situation Elegran and he’s learnt on the job!

If the USA is so awful Elegran then why are so many people falling over themselves to get in? sooziewoozie says it’s because they’re desperate. I think there’s more on offer than just a safe haven. I’m not good at geography I’d have to look at a map but what is east of Mexico - aren’t there islands or other places to legally emigrate to? What’s down South? Why can’t the Mexicans stay and try to change their country from within (like Remainers tell us Leavers that’s what the U.K. should have done in the EU?)

My brain hurts. It’s too early in a morning for such heavy political debate.

I’m off to get my breakfast!
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There is a plaque on the statue of liberty that says :

"give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door"

The original people of the USA are now often confined to reservations. The country as it is now was built by immigrants. Mr T's father is of German origin, his mother Scotish. I expect he sees them as the right kind of immigrant....