Johnson and Brexit

This is bizarre!

Bill Mitchell is now being hailed as an "expert", while the views of nearly every other economist are dismissed.

Mitchell is considered to be the "father" of Modern Monetary Theory, which is loosely based on Keynesism. Corbyn and McDonnell have adopted some of his theories on spending, but those plans are usually dismissed out of hand by the very people who now think that Mitchell is right.

Mitchell is Australian. Richard Murphy, the British "expert" on MMT disagrees with Mitchell about the application of his theories. Murphy was originally very critical of the EU, but (although still critical) has come to the conclusion that staying in the EU would produce the best outcome for the UK.

So our refineries face a 5% tariff, putting our refineries at a disadvantage. Some will go out of business. But this government whilst seeing our businesses being at a such a precarious position seem to be willing to support EU refineries by allowing their imports at zero rate.

What is the matter with them?

Day6 in regard to your post @-20:19 today, what would you have happen in terms of the future of the European Union. Would you wish it to implode on itself, for if that collapse was somewhat sudden, as the worlds largest and most powerful trading block that collapse would impact worldwide trading and finance bringing a recession or even depression that would encompass Britain whether we were in or out of the EU.

Perhaps Day6 you would wish to see the EU return to just a trading block of individual nations each with its own currency etc. However, even within such trading blocks there has to be rules and minimum standards on such things as animal welfare, industrial safety standards and crop production techniques etc for there to be equality in trading.

As Britain is witnessing at the present time the fluctuating values of currencies can affect the balance of trading between nations and the companies trading within those currencies.

However, perhaps the greatest benefit of large trading blocks especially in regard to the EU is the stability it creates between the nations who are members of them. In that, Europe has never had such a long period of sustained peace as since the Common Market came into existence which then transformed into the European Union due to the above needs for equality of standards.

So, again what would you have in place of the European Union? If it be more openness and democracy, then surely it is better to argue for that from within were this country can make a difference, for we can change nothing from outside

So, Day6 or to any forum member who wishes to see in Britain withdraw and also an end to the European Union as is exists today, what would you have in its place, a continent of individual nations as in the early nineteen hundreds and nineteen-thirties, but we all know what that brought about.

GGMK3

"So you post something by a talent manager who "has helped oversee the careers of the Spice Girls, Five, Stephen Gately and Hear'Say, B*Witched, The Honeyz, Ben's Brother." and I am supposed to think what? "
--

I am intrigued. Who are you referring to?

Is your 'quip' to Day 6?

So you post something by a talent manager who "has helped oversee the careers of the Spice Girls, Five, Stephen Gately and Hear'Say, B*Witched, The Honeyz, Ben's Brother." and I am supposed to think what?

Are you telling us you don't believe in experts and going out of your way to prove it. Anyone can google and pick up an anti-EU piece on the net.

Your link isn't working Day 6.

"Europe in 2019 – a neoliberal, corporatist state that lacks transparency and cheats its own laws when convenient."

I dare say Remainers will not want to read yet another article outlining why the undemocratic and corrupt behemoth that is the EU should be dissolved, but I hope Leavers everywhere are comforted that we are not alone in feeling the UK needs to get out, and quickly.

It is an interesting article. We are paying billions into this institution too, every single year. That in itself is scandalous given the undemocratic nature of the EU.

By economist Bill Mitchell - (Macroeconomic research, teaching and advocacy.)

(http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=42623

.......over the long period I have studied the concept of European integration it was obvious to me that despite the chimera of a strict, rule-based system that is run by technocrats, the actual practice of the Union is vicariously ad hoc – rules applied in cases where doing otherwise would present ideological problems, abandonment of the rules and outright illegal behaviour when there the interests of the corporate elites are at stake or the existence of the Union is threatened

And while law breaking, relevant officials produce complicated justifications of their behaviour as if what they are doing is within the boundaries specified by the Treaties. The Europhile progressives, meanwhile, continue to hold up this embarrassing monstrosity as the exemplar of freedom, globalism, cosmopolitanism and sophistication.

They have reached such a state of denial that what is obvious to those looking in from the outside escapes their attention, or, in the mould of the European technocrats they just ride along with the spurious justifications for the unjustifiable.

Europe in 2019.

You will see I made a perfectly valid observation. To which I am entitled. Different viewpoint to most on here as I am one of the few Leavers who comment on the political thread. Those of us who join in as mostly Remainers

Indeed Urmstongran

It's like an echo chamber of gloom, doom, and you'll witness and urgency to impart tales of yet more future terrors to each other when they are left alone. It's fascinating. One wonders when they'll stop frothing at the mouth and how they calm down once they turn off their devices.

There are Leavers galore on Gransnet who sensibly stay away from such threads. We are the enemy here. Remainers still haven't got over the fact that not enough people in the UK voted to stay in the EU.

growstuff wrote:

Don't waste your time, Whitewave. You'll just fuel some kind of primal urge to attack people

Oh the thick-skinned irony! Hilarious!

My thanks to Urmstongran for clarifying to me my thoughts and opinions on the Brexit referendum, the concepts held by the proponents of it, and the events and developments that have happened since. Reading the views and links from all sides does put all the evidence and data into the scales, where the balance of evidence becomes very obvious. Any ambiguities appearing at first have now evaporated and I am quite certain that this country (and those who sail in her) are in for a very rocky twenty years.

After that? Who knows! There may indeed be a new renaissance, as Brexiteers hope, and we may all be flourishing, but I very much doubt it.

Meanwhile, those insiders who gambled against Britain and lowered the value of the pound by exchanging their sterling for other currencies will be drinking champagne all the way to the bank.

1. The EU has just rejected Johnson's backstop proposals.

2. All this talk about food and being able to grow it. There was a farmer from Herfordshire this morning on TV talking about his crop and the future for his farm. He has enormous polytunnels for strawberries. Most of his workers come over from Rumania to do the picking. And they would be happy to return next year, if they can. He has tried UK workers but they don't stay the course. After a few days they're off.

Apparently the government has increased the number of visas to be granted to non EU workers from 2,500 to 30,000. Do they really think that they will be able to attract that many from India and Pakistan etc to come and work on our farms for a few months. Or perhaps they're hoping to attract students from Australia and New Zealand etc to come over for summer work.

All those measures could be bundled together and called something like the Enabling Act. Oh hang on! Somebody already used that label

The plans to sort out all eventualities are probably highly dependent on proroguing parliament, declaring a national emergency and military law, issuing ration books and travel passes (but not to EU 'immigrants', obviously) slapping D notices on any media mention of queues at customs, shortages etc, and passing powers to charge with treason anyone overheard wishing the blasted Brexit referendum had been cancelled before it began.

This was what was unnecessary in my opinion: growstuff Mon 19-Aug-19 23:07:36
Anyway, while you're ranting away with your nonsense

Oh stop it Whitewave

Look further upthread, before growstuff’s remark.

You will see I made a perfectly valid observation. To which I am entitled. Different viewpoint to most on here as I am one of the few Leavers who comment on the political thread. Those of us who join in as mostly Remainers.

When I made my perfectly reasonable comment, growstuff immediately came back at me describing it in a derogatory manner.

Ah well.

Life’s too short to keep this up.

I only posted my rebuttal to demonstrate that different opinions don’t need calling out in a mean way.

I’m off now to put on some sun cream and have a swim in the gardens here before lunch.

???

All of you ardent Brexiteers who are so sure that 'they need us as much as we need them' and 'what about all the Dutch salad products' etc., etc., maybe, just maybe, they are organised, have found other markets because they can, and are not going to be weeping in their glasshouses over acres of spoiled fruit and vegetables. The bulldog spirit and Little Englander mentality just won't wash anymore, we shouldn't have to knuckle down and suffer the bumps in the road, the bumps in the road that I didn't vote for by the way, I am beyond angry that this diabolical situation has been foisted on me and mine and that there are still, despite report after report, some people who support this minority government in their economic suicide. I sit at night watching the news, on various channels, and one after the other the Ministers lie and obfuscate and dismiss valid reports. Pritti Patel says one thing, Johnson another, Gove gurns at the reporter as he dismisses a report that spells out the likely results.....it is like something out of George Orwell, or Monty Python (without the humour).

And a not very optimistic one at that

Don't be daft, Blinko! He's only an expert doncha know!

Did anyone see Lord (Bob) Kerslake interviewed about this leaked report the other day on BBC Breakfast? He's a former head of the Civil Service. In his view, the report was accurate, well sourced and entirely credible.

But, hey, what does he know?

Don't waste your time, Whitewave. You'll just fuel some kind of primal urge to attack people.

ug I simply can’t follow your logic.

grow was posting examples of the lies told by brexiters. How does that constitute a rant, or even evidence if her inebriation?

Can you try and move past the hurt caused by these pesky questions about something you voted for and responded any of the above in detail?

And another:

Drugs and disease
i) The Border Delivery Group/Department for Transport planning assumption on reduced flow rates describes a pre-mitigation reasonable worst-case flow rate that could be as low as 40% on Day 1 of No Deal via the short straits [main Channel crossings], with significant disruption lasting up to six months. Unmitigated, this will have an impact on the supply of medicines and medical supplies.

Supply chains for medicines and medical products rely heavily on the short straits, which makes them particularly vulnerable to severe delays: three-quarters of medicines come via the short straits. Supply chains are also highly regulated and require transportation that meets strict Good Distribution Practices. This can include limits on transit times and temperature-controlled conditions. While some products can be stockpiled, others cannot because of short shelf lives. It will not be practical to stockpile six months’ supplies. The Department for Health and Social Care is developing a multi-layered approach to mitigate these risks.

ii) Any disruption that reduces, delays or stops the supply of medicines for UK veterinary use would reduce our ability to prevent and control disease outbreaks, with potential harm to animal health and welfare, the environment and wider food safety and availability, as well as, in the case of zoonotic diseases, posing a risk to human health. Industry stockpiling will not be able to match the 4-12 weeks’ stockpiling that took place in March 2019. Air freight capacity and the special import scheme are not a financially viable way to mitigate risks associated with veterinary medicine availability issues.


Food and water
i) Certain types of fresh food supply will decrease. Critical elements of the food supply chain (such as ingredients, chemicals and packaging) may be in short supply. In combination, these two factors will not cause an overall shortage of food in the UK but will reduce availability and choice and increase the price, which will affect vulnerable groups. The UK growing season will have come to an end, so the agri-food supply chain will be under increased pressure for food retailers. Government will not be able to fully anticipate all effects on the agri-food supply chain. There is a risk that panic buying will disrupt food supplies.

I’m not pretending to be hurt by your cutting remarks.

Never mind growstuff it seems to be your M.O.

And others (who lurk on these threads but find them ‘too cut and thrust’ to want to join in - I wonder why! Ha!). will be reading your strident posts and, I daresay, forming their own opinions!

A new document leaked "BREXIT BENEFITS"

(Okay, it will never happen - but why not I wonder)