Johnson and Brexit

You’re sounding more and more deluded with every day that passes whilst you watch reality unfold

Well, snap right back at you.

I am afraid that retort applies to Remainers more than Leavers. It's a new scare story every day for you, isn't it?

Perhaps you could tell us how YOUR life and "your reality is unfolding" Sir Chenjin? I'd really like to know.

If it is, you have my sympathy, but you seem to have time to sit at a computer to discuss every hysterical and gloomy post written by your Remainer buddies. Perhaps time away from message boards is the answer - for Remainers and Leavers alike?

Life is NOT unfolding as I type. We have sussed your use of Remainer sweeping, exaggerated generalisations that 'everything is awful' and <ahem> "life is unfolding".

It patently isn't. We are trying to extricate ourselves from a trade deal. Anyone would think we have enemy tanks on all our coastline and underground bunkers were being built all over the place. Please get a sense of proportion.

For those of us who have experienced shocking and horrific real life troubles, Brexit negotiations, although interesting and shambolic, really don't figure that largely, nor does life in the future after we have stopped giving Brussels 39,000,000,000 of our taxpayer pounds every year.

Sense of proportion. Sense of perspective.

I think you're right, Dinahmo. The EU countries will be third countries after 31 October. By default pensions are frozen, unless a separate agreement has been reached, which it won't have been in this case.

Interesting thought!

Why should anybody who criticises people for exhibiting lack of honesty, decency and fairness be accused of stoking up unrest?

Shouldn't it be the people who stoke up the lack of honesty, decency and fairness who should be accused?

Yup! A world turned upside down!

Day I don't suppose there will be a rush of English tourists to Europe. The drop in the value of sterling has made it very expensive.

Sir Chenjin My understanding is that our state pensions will be frozen at the amount we receive when the UK leaves the EU. I don't think that will be as at 31/10/2019 but possibly a year later. It's one of the EU rules that expats should be treated the same as UK residents. Expats in places such as Australia and Canada don't receive the annual increases.

Day6 You should listen and learn from your Remain voting children.

Deluded!

Does anybody here know anybody who doesn't have ties to the EU? Is there really anybody who has never consumed something made in the EU?

Hands up please!

Ah! But people like that led the Charge of the Light Brigade and tried to reach the South Pole! Some of them were even sent over the top in WW1!

and are now witnessing the deconstruction and dismantling of so many aspects of our lives

But I am NOT - and my remain voting children are NOT.

Life is not crumbling around us. We haven't left the EU yet. We might not leae the EU. Who knows?

I appreciate there may be certain groups of people with ties to the EU who will be affected by our leaving but behind the scenes there are thousands of people paid to research and prepare for a No Deal, just as there are all over Europe. They are making contingency plans, as must anyone who has a tie.

It does not take a genius to work out that the EU needs our huge tourist market. Many countries need to 'import' tourism as a very valuable economic tool and Brits go abroad and tend to spend lots of money there. We won't all of a sudden stop sharing resources, information, research etc, because we are out and they are in. The NHS isn't about to collapse. We will find ways in which to trade with the EU quite smoothly once the initial readjustments have been made. We will still be European and will not be barring Europeans from our shores. Students from all over the world and EU member states. will continue to study at our Universities. (Think of the income.) Supplies may be stockpiled for a while, and then will flow again, either from existing sources, or new ones.

I read about Brexit developments, sometimes shenanigans, daily. I feel a political interest as do many others who have not followed political developments before.

I do not feel that "a lack of decency, honesty and fairness" applies to life as it is lived in the UK (because of Brexit)

That is a stupid claim, designed to fire up unrest. Our politicians will blunder through the Brexit process, as usual. Most of us just want to see an end point sometime soon.

"They are paid to oppose those not in their camp. " No, they are not paid to oppose anyone not in their camp. They are paid to run the country, to the best of their ability.

Their remit is to discuss ways and means of regulating the laws, trade, and social structure of their country so as to balance the needs and welfare of all the population. That includes helping exporters get the highest possible prices for the produce and manufactured goods that are sold outside the country, and helping the importers get reasonable prices for what comes in, while keeping up standards in what is imported, what is exported and what is produced and sold within the country, and keeping working and living conditions at the optimum for all their constituents - which means those who did not vote for them as well as those did.

Twisting facts to keep themselves in office is not part of their job.

Bingo right back at you - with bells on.

You’re sounding more and more deluded with every day that passes whilst you watch reality unfold. The only thing you’ve got is your optimism and blind faith - because the alternative is to admit you were wrong and that you were lied to. It’s all looking a bit shit.

It must be lovely to be able to shut off so easily

And BINGO!

That didn't take long.

I am surprised you didn't come up with the usual 'sticking your head in the sand' retort.

Just because a more optimistic reality is my mind-set, I refuse to take on-board the monstrous Remainer claim that life is awful and devoid of 'decency, honesty and fairness'. (And when was life EVER fair?)

This heated argument on message boards is NOT my reality. Are you are still severely fretting about Brexit when you switch off? You will be in the minority if you are I imagine.

That is my point. Remainers keep telling us that everything is awful, even when nothing has been decided or agreed upon. They are fuelling the 'broken Britain' narrative because it suits their purpose to do so.

They are, and have been since the referendum, (three long years) blaming Leavers for not enough people voting to remain in the EU.

If we do leave the EU we are perfectly capable of steering our own course once the waves subside. People are NOT at each others throats - politicians have always been at each others throats. They are paid to oppose those not in their camp. Always have been. Remainers and Leavers may be at loggerheads on line, but it's not the same away from your armchair and outside. Remainers and leavers seem to be jogging along together quite happily in my town centre.

The echo chamber that remainers create if they are left together on a thread is quite sad. I understand you sticking together so you can air your gloomy thoughts, but please do not try to tell us that life is broken and always will be.

We are just not buying it, but have sussed your methods.

The HOC is chaotic, the Brexit situation is chaotic, Corbyn is looking for a power-grab, Boris is seeking to do a deal or get us out. It's all very chat-worthy but a sense of perspective should tell you that we all are stuck with whatever happens whether we leave or not.

Meanwhile, life goes on.

"As a Remainer you'd probably like there to be chaos, anarchy and people running amok because of Brexit, but it isn't happening. " Again, it seems that Leavers are deluded into thinking that Remainers actually like chaos! Paranoia!

No, as a remainer, if the withdrawal from Europe is what the rest of the country, after due consideration of the facts and data and the real welfare of their fellow-citizens, genuinely and logically want, then I would have accepted it, but would have liked it to take place -

1) . . with truth, honesty and decency in the campaigning for the vote, not with lies instead of truth, emotion clouding issues of national and social importance, machismo and personalities obscuring argument, and expert opinions based on experience, data and FACTS dismissed as propaganda while media hype and invented stories were elevated above them.

2) . . with the discussions and negotiations undertaken in an orderly and dignified way, not used for party shenanigans and personal empire-building purposes.

3) . . with careful preparation for the massive changes that will happen as a result of a complete turn-around in the direction of the nation's future, not as a series of ad hoc sudden whims and volte-faces.

How members of Parliament conduct themselves, individually and collectively, is both an example to the rest of the country of how Englishmen of the ruling classes - gentlemen - should behave and a mirror of how the electorate choose their representatives. The values and tastes of those who elected the particular lot in Westminster at the moment - of all parties, because a majority of sensible honest men/women would have voted with their consciences - are demonstrated by the MPs they voted in.

It must be lovely to be able to shut off so easily - I suppose it’s the only way to cope if you voted to Leave and are now witnessing the deconstruction and dismantling of so many aspects of our lives, and not for the better. What a shame millions of others don’t find it so easy and will find their lives irreparably damaged by Brexit for many years to come.

I wonder if we will ever get back to decency, honesty and fairness in our lifetime?

Is it from "The Power of Suggestion " Remainer handbook by any chance? If you state it's awful often enough people will believe their lives are chaotically bad and people are at each others throats?

Doesn't work.

What a strange things to say. I and all I know still live with decency, honesty and fairness.

PARLIAMENT may be showing us they do things differently, but to be honest, as I have just been discussing with another GN, these message boards see heated debate but out there, nothing much has changed. Nobody talks Brexit to me or family members when we are out and about.

The only intensity is online when Leavers and Remainers have discussions or when people in politics are on chat shows.

As a Remainer you'd probably like there to be chaos, anarchy and people running amok because of Brexit, but it isn't happening. Life will go on after October 31st, pretty much as it has done before but with an adjustment period, a stabilising time and a few ways we do things differently, which will affect trade and not many ordinary mortals. (Unless your crystal ball tells you fifferently, that is.) Give it a few years and it will be hard to remember all the Remainer angst.

Thank goodness when we leave our screens behind the decency, honesty and fairness prevails - because it doesn't always, on line.

Sense of proportion needed Whitewave and perhaps a dose of realism too? We posters fuel the Brexit fires. They go out the minute my tablet/phone/laptop goes off.

Blame the E.U. - they will just shrug their shoulders and say we tried but after 3 yrs talking you still think you can “have your cake and eat it”

I think the problem is he doesn't actually want an agreement with the EU so that he can leave without it then blame the EU for not being willing to negotiate. Horrendous man - entertaining but awful.

Does anyone know what’s likely to happen to the state pensions of U.K. expats living across Europe?

Enjoy it while you can urmstongran, if you are in your home in Spain, this could be the last summer of easy travel backwards and forwards and the end of the EHIC. If I have got the facts right?

^ GillT57 Mon 19-Aug-19 13:53:03^

Or maybe just enjoying the summer holidays?
?

If he really does stop FoM on 1 November, he's going to be in for a big shock. The EU isn't such a big brother as some people claim, so each country is making its own arrangements for UK nationals. Spain has the largest number and has made it very clear that arrangements are reciprocal.

Low income groups are always worst affected by any changes

Today on the lunchtime news freedom of movement was mentioned and on Oct 31st that will stop according to our PM yet he is going to Europe to ask for changes.
That is one of their core principles they are not going to move, with that and the backstop there does not seem much hope of a happy ending as long as BJ is PM.

And we have an active thread in Chat full of people saying that they never read/see the news, it's too depressing...

These people are allowed to vote...

That's how we got into this bloody mess...

The Operation Yellowhammer report includes the following:

"Low-income groups will be disproportionately affected by rises in the price of food and fuel."

No suggestions as to how this effect could be mitigated.

No wonder Johnson, Gove and Cummings have tried to dismiss the report.

It's given me some ideas for Halloween costumes! The ghouls won't be imaginary this year.