Johnson and Brexit

I don’t agree jura2 regarding a second referendum. If the result is the same then what? I voted leave but if remain had won I would have respected the result and moved on. Hopefully we will get a deal if not then we must leave as per the public vote. That is democracy in my opinion.

For remainers and leavers, who are worried about the possibility of a no deal and what it will do to our country, there is a glimmer of hope.

A number of cross party MPs are working together throughout the summer recess to decide how best to torpedo a no deal

Before any extremists on here who are happy with a no deal start screaming that this is to stop Brexit,———it isn’t!!

The hope of avoiding calamity is resting on the decisions of Tory moderates, and the labour leadership. Brexit with an orderly departure can still go ahead.

Boosgran- people who voted to Leave we told we would get a great deal, the easiest in the world and a lot more money for NHS - how many voted Leave for No Deal?

The Brexit we are being faced now is a totally different entity to the one people voted on - so the only democratic thing to do is to ask them again.

No, I don’t think the cost is worth it gracesgran. I want the U.K. to stay together but, the majority of people who bothered to vote in the 2016 referendum voted to leave and that’s what must happen.

Going back to my question to Lemongrass. I would be interested to hear if anyone thinks the break up of The United Kingdom of Great Britain is a price worth paying to leave the EU. I didn't mean to put all the weight on LGs shoulders for that one.

Good question Crystaltipps. As is our way we have wandered into what suits us to some extent. In my lifetime we seem to have changed from Great Britain to the UK. I asked Google and this was the answer.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the official title of the state. Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England are often called the Home Nations. All of them can be described as countries, or nations, as can the UK in its entirety. None of them are independent states, however.

Is the U.K. a single “country” or a political union of countries.?

'Plaid Cymru has joined a legal challenge to stop Boris Johnson trying to suspend Parliament over Brexit in the event he is confirmed as the next Prime Minister on Tuesday.
MPs and Peers from across the political divide want a court to rule that the next Prime Minister cannot close down Parliament before the latest Brexit deadline of October 31 – going further than a vote which has already taken place in the Commons.

The politicians involved in this latest action include Plaid Cymru and Labour MPs as well as Scottish MPs from the SNP, Liberal Democrats, and Labour Party as well as English independent, Labour and Green MPs.
Swansea West Labour MP Geraint Davies is also a petitioner, along with Lord Peter Hain, former MP for Neath.
Other MPs backing the petition are Heidi Allen (Independent), Joanna Cherry (SNP), Geraint Davies (Labour), Ian Murray (Labour), Angela Smith (Independent), Jo Swinson (Lib Dem) and Hywel Williams (Plaid Cymru).
Petitioners from the House of Lords include Baroness Jones, Baroness Royall, Lord Winston and Lord Wood.

The group has written to the Government’s legal representative in Scotland informing him that in seven days they will sue for a court guarantee that the Prime Minister cannot close down Parliament in the run-up to October 31. It also supported by Jolyon Maugham QC of the Good Law Project, which is backing the action.' I'm still pretty sure the mood has changed in Wales since the referendum....

I hear what you are saying lemongrass but surely we have to look at reality as it is now, three years later and with far more information available to everyone.

The fact is that there is a possibility that, in time, after leaving the EU we could loose Scotland, Northern Ireland and possibly even Wales. However much of an outside chance you believe that to be, however much you believe we voted as the UK are you prepared for that to happen and do you think it's a price worth paying?

Wales voted leave but the Welsh Assembly oppose a no deal Brexit.'.Scotland’s parliament and the Welsh national assembly voted on Tuesday to oppose the Brexit deal agreed by the UK government, the first time they have done so simultaneously in a sign of the United Kingdom’s internal fracture over Brexit.
Britain’s 52-48 percent 2016 vote to leave the EU has stretched relations between the four-nation United Kingdom because England and Wales voted to leave but a majority in Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay.
Since then, both the Scottish and the Welsh devolved governments say their voice has been ignored in British Prime Minister Theresa May’s plans to take Britain out of the EU, something London denies. They are worried about its economic impact and the vote on Tuesday, despite having no binding effect, is a way of formalising their political opposition.
May herself is struggling to come up with changes to a Brexit deal which could unite a fragmented national parliament at Westminster before the March 29 EU exit deadline.
“The prime minister’s deal will cause major, lasting damage to jobs, living standards and public services such as the National Health Service and should be voted down,” said Scotland’s constitutional relations minister Michael Russell.
“The UK government must also stop using the threat of a catastrophic “no deal” outcome to blackmail the UK parliament into accepting her deeply damaging plans,” he said.
Political decision-making in Britain is heavily devolved, although the Westminster parliament in London is sovereign and has the final say over Brexit.'

I believe Wales voted Leave, but as I just said, it was for the UK.

Oh and Gibraltar voted remain also. And I'm pretty sure that Wales now favours remain, also....

Except.....you can’t break the numbers down that way, it was a referendum for the UK as a whole.

England voted to leave. Scotland and Northern Ireland didn't.

Not that I think Scotland will get a referendum anytime soon.

If Scotland has another referendum and the vote is for Leave ( the UK) then the people of Scotland have spoken and want Independence....just as the vote was for Leave (the EU).If the government approves a referendum and agrees to
Implement the result, then that is what should happen.
It’s democracy.

Good grief! Is Farage's victim complex contagious? Let's all hop up and down, have a hissy fit and sue somebody. I'm sure some of us could do with a bit of money :-(

Would you think the breakup of the Union worth it if that was the cost for leaving the EU Boosgran?

Scotland is part of the U.K. and the U.K. voted to leave. Maybe when Sturgeon gets her way and you become independent you can go have another vote to remain. ?

62% Of Scots who voted ..voted REMAIN ..thats Scotland wide ..apparently we dont count !!

I wasn't "having a go" Boosgran and I don't see how trying to define something is insulting. As far as I can see "the country as a whole supports our leaving the EU" is far from accurate and I wonder why people say such things. Do they actually believe that - as in most people want to leave? Or do they believe that once you have a majority, however small and however long ago you somehow become the "country as a whole"?

Politics threads are bound to be discussion-based and arguments put forward will be challenged. Surely that is very different from attacking someone personally. I admit there are worse things than "silly" those disagreeing with leaving without a deal are sometimes called. However, it seems to be a GNHQ rule about personal remarks like this and, to be honest, in the climate we currently have I am not surprised.

Please do what you want. You were
Just having a go like a lot of insulting posters on here and quite frankly I’m sick of posters like you with your superior confrontational attitude.

here not hear - sorry.

I will ask GNHQ to mediate as we were definitely trying to find what had been meant by "the country as a whole" and you definitely aimed your criticism at me personally not any discussion point. I don't think half the people on hear realise that calling people names is rude!

YOU were being ‘rude’ with your ridiculous line of questioning GGmk3 and yes you were being silly.