Patriotic, not.

Have to say the Brexit discussion here is far more civilised than on MN

I’m a Remain voter but at least some of the Leave voters here have been able to say rationally why they voted Leave and have given me stuff to think about. Thank you for that as it is helpful to have an understanding .

and still some people just can't see what is happening

To get back to the subject of this thread. It has been reported that hedge fund operator Crispin Odey made £220,000,000 in 2016 by betting that a Leave result would trigger a crash in the value of the pound.

How much did you make? I'm guessing that, like me, you lost because of that Leave vote. Most of the UK population did.

Now this pro-Brexit Conservative donor, who donated £10,000 to Johnson's leadership campaign, has reportedly waged a £300,000,000 bet against some of Britain’s biggest businesses on the implication their share prices will crash after Brexit.

Shorting involves borrowing currency or shares and selling immediately in the hope of buying them back later for less and pocketing the difference.

Ian Murray, the Labour MP who champions the People’s Vote campaign, said: “It’s a disgrace to democracy that Johnson is happy to take money from a man who is betting against the country and who stands to make a mint if he forces no deal on us. It might not be illegal, but it stinks.”

inews.co.uk/news/tory-donor-bets-300-million-on-losses-for-uk-firms-after-no-deal-brexit/

Unpatriotic??? You bet!

this has been clear now for a long time- same with shortage of some drugs and also surgical equipment for operating theatres, prostheses, etc.

When I first mentionned this here- I was told I was disgusting to be so cruel and scare mongering.

I read today how the medical profession is worried about continuing the supply of radio isotopes from Europe for radiotherapy over here. We only make one type in this country. They are fearful it will cause huge delays in cancer treatment. I, for one, tremble at this news. I cannot wait 50 years for it all to sort itself out and may bring me demise sooner than expected.
Selfish I know but I have many other reasons to remain in the EU as most of you know.

Minniemoo Sun 04-Aug-19 15:43:49 Thank you for giving your reasons, that is more than anyone else has done.

I don't recognise the comments in your first paragraph but accept that I don't read every thread. They are certainly not comments I have made.

The rest of your post is caring but how will it improve if we leave the EU?

I disagree that the richer countries exploit the poor although there may be examples of it. I see it in a very different way. The Polish economy was doing very badly, their people went to other EU countries to work and send home money. The Polish economy improved through EU intervention and many of the Poles have returned home to work, partly because the £ is so much devalued but mainly because they have jobs to go back to. Now that things are better they can sell more to other countries and are better able to buy in too. Just like a family helping out its weaker neighbour.

I don't think remainers want it to happen at all we simply know that "all it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing". It feels like leavers are not listening to the experts again and have their heads in the sand although I am sure that does not apply to all of them.

Why is there all this talk about right and left? Not all right wingers are Brexiteers and vice versa.

We all have our own reasons for our beliefs and we should respect those of others as long as they are based in facts. These facts, however, seem very hard to come by amidst all the propaganda published by both sides.

Really articulate and informative posts Minniemoo. Thoroughly agree. Love the way someone then writes “I don’t mean to sound patronising but”. Priceless.

'Adding to its pattern of mainstreaming toxic extremism, Fox News regularly echoes and sanitizes the dangerous white supremacist conspiracy theory that non-white immigrants represent the threat of “replacement” to white populations. This racist talking point has already inspired massacres and hate crimes around the world.'

and this has been voiced right here on GN- and rightly deleted (thank you GNHQ) - but it has made the cover of several tabloids, again and again- and was very much part of the Leave campaign (remember that dreadful poster with Farage in front of a huge line of 'brown' people invading the UK - from the EU ?!?

Some left wingers are against the EU- of course. See Corbyn and McCluskey, etc.

My point is re the anti EU propaganda machine, via sectors of the Press and TV, and via Cambridge Analytica, etc- which is definitely from the far right. Proven - no question. This is not an 'opinion' to be agreed with or not.

Sometimes British people aren't white.......who ever would have thought it?
My dear Polish friends, Christians and white have left, too scared to stay put.

by far right anti EU propaganda machine

Oh do give over Jura!

A lot of left wingers are against the EU.

It really is a left wing cause which works extremely well for businessmen and multi-nationals, amassing huge profits on the backs of a very low paid migrant work force, which has no union protection. No wonder Branson is in favour.

You are either in or out. I want us out of the EU, most definitely and I don't take kindly to your casual use of 'far right' for any agenda which doesn't match yours.

The derogatory labelling of people we disagree with is very dangerous.

You'd know all about it if extreme far left or right forces did seize control of government. Ask the Venezuelans.

Minniemoo thank you for posting the reason you voted leave, I don't mean to sound patronising but you had a reason and have detailed it. Many, if not all, Brexiteers have listed vague reasons such as 'getting back sovereignty' or 'taking back control' all vague, nonsensical sound bites. I have never thought the EU perfect by any stretch, but I believe that the way to change things, such as the abhorrent transportation of live animals, is from within the EU, not outside it. At least, we agree on one thing, even if we disagree on how to achieve it.

Don’t hold your breath

researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8031

Is the vote to leave the EU an opportunity to ban live animal exports?

There have been a number of campaigns against live animal exports for slaughter on welfare grounds; and concern about cases such as that of 40 sheep that were euthanised in 2012 at the Port of Ramsgate following transport problems. In the case that followed the High Court ruled that the Port could not ban live animal exports, on the grounds of freedom of movement within the EU and existing UK legislation.

There has been speculation that once the UK leaves the EU, it could ban live exports. In November 2016, the then Minister explained that the Government had not reached a position on the nature of future arrangements concerning live animal exports after Brexit. Some, including the RSPCA, have questioned whether it will be legally possible to ban such trade under World Trade Organisation rules. The 2017 Conservative Manifesto stated the UK could take early steps to control the export of live farm animals for slaughter once it left the EU. Since then, Defra has stated that a ban is one of the options being considered. Concerns have been raised on the impact of a ban on the export of live animals from Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland. The Labour Party has also proposed a ban, with a similar exemption for the Northern Ireland border.

In April 2018, Defra issued a six week call for evidence on controlling live exports for slaughter and to improve animal welfare during transport after the UK leaves the EU on behalf of the UK Government and Devolved Administrations. This is now being reviewed by the Farm Animal Welfare Committee, which is expected to report in due course.

Minniemoo I think the reason there is live animal transport is because the European buyers want it that way. So us leaving the EU wouldn't bring about a reduction in that method of transport. As with many other things, we should be in Europe to try to stop it.

Many of the Tory front bench, such as Sajid Javid are followers of Ayn Rand. Liz Truss has been meeting American libertarian groups committed to shrinking the state and cutting environmental regulations to talk about possible future trade deals. The USA being so much more powerful that us is going to want deregulation in many areas and we are not going to be able to withstand the pressure.

No one here is a "Remoaner", but many, if not most of us are Remainers.

Well said Minniemoo, and I heartily agree with you. We are not all Remoaners on here.

Oh! Said post has been deleted even as I posted!

I have got a pretty good idea of why the leavers voted leave, but I'm sure as hell not putting it on here. It would get deleted and so would I.

But there is a strong clue in RosieLeah's post.

Do you really thing France, Italy, Germany don’t have an “individual culture and identity”? Well they’re not all white, and neither is the U.K. . Leaving the EU won’t mean we get rid of non white people will it? I know some Leavers think that.

I could weep.

On the one hand, we have politicians willing to drive this country to the wall so they can become even richer and on the other, in our multi-racial country, we have racists who think this will keep us white and "Christian".

How on earth can either of those groups be described as Patriotic?

Minniemoo thank you and I completely respect how you feel.

As for Rosielea last time I looked most Europeans are white. We are still going to have immigrants from India, Pakistan, the West Indies etc. They will be our saving grace. Hopefully they will shore our NHS up.

Says it all really doesn’t it?

The rest of the world must be mightily impressed with the level of insight demonstrated there.

Yes, the good folk of Barnsley are in for a surprise!