Post Brexit food

So how is this all NOT nonsense and stupidity? Why would anyone actively choose to disrupt the life of a country on such a massive scale? Are the threats to our democratic systems really going unnoticed?

Varian, the wording of your comments (nonsense, stupidity) is insulting the majority who voted for Brexit. How about respecting the fact that other people have different views to your own?

Crystaltipps, cutting down on meat is also the best thing people can do to improve their health, so a really positive move!

Maizie pointed out that-

"Whether we Brexit with a 'deal' or no deal the UK automatically becomes a third country. I don't think there's any 'if' about it..."

There is an "if" about it Maizie. We don't need to brexit at all.

We could unilaterally Revoke Article 50 and the UK would Remain in the EU, which is what the majority of the UK population want.

Why should we regard this brexit nonsense as inevitable?

I know, as we all know, that there is a real danger of stupidity triumphing so that this self-inflicted damage called brexit is not prevented, but we should all do everything we possibly can to STOP BREXIT.

Cutting down meat eating is the best thing people can do for the planet, as meat production contributes more in the way of carbon emissions than all air and road transport combined.

Not really Alexa people become vegetarian for ethical reasons as well, but I bet more will be reducing or cutting meat out of their diets if we start importing US produced rubbish.

It's a remarkable coincidence Brexit food is a thing at exactly the same time large numbers of people are going vegetarian for other reasons.

Of course not, Callistemon.

There are also all those business which import and export parts for Just In Time deliveries.

It's not just hauliers which operate on tight margins, many farmers do too.
Losing just one truckload of produce and the uncertainty over who would be liable and pay out in the event could mean the difference between whether their business survives or not.

should Britain become a third nation in the eyes of the European Union.

Whether we Brexit with a 'deal' or no deal the UK automatically becomes a third country. I don't think there's any 'if' about it...

MaizieD, a large percentage of food coming into the United Kingdom from the European Union is transported by way of backloads on British Hauliers vehicles. The foregoing is much tied up in the efficiency of the industry. You are also quite right that there could well be a problem with the number operating permits granted should Britain become a third nation in the eyes of the European Union.

However, added to the above problem is the matter of many European based hauliers stating they will not wish to undertake operational journeys through the channel ports or tunnel if delays due to vehicle check come about.

Obviously, those European based transport companies would not wish to have their vehicles held up for hours or days on end making no money when they still have twenty-seven other European Union member states they can operate in without problems

the British road transport industry one of the most efficient and competitive industries operating within the European Union.

Of course, 'competitive' means very tight margins, doesn't it, Grandad? This would be badly eroded by longer waiting times at ferry terminals.

Do you have any idea, Grandad of how much (if any) food comes into the UK from the EU as 'backloads'?

Because if UK lorries are bringing foodstuffs into the UK as return loads would there be a problem with the EU permits that will be needed for UK lorries going into the EU once we become a third country. I understood that there weren't going to be enough available for all the lorries that work from the the UK to the EU at present.

Callistemon, in regard to your post @20:42 today, as I stated in my above post that many involved in the transport industry have given little thought to such matters as who will carry the loses for spoiled food products. There seems to be an attitude of "non-belief" that a no-deal Brexit could actually happen.

It has to be remembered that large scale trading with Europe involving the road transport industry has been steadily built up over the last forty-five years. The large scale just in time delivery services and schedules have come about over the last twenty-five years. Those operations have made the British road transport industry one of the most efficient and competitive industries operating within the European Union. Therefore thoughts on delays and the inefficiency those delays could bring about do not come easily or naturally to any level of management in the industry.

In that I feel is the reason no real planning is going into such matters as product loses, as there is no real belief that such situations will or could actually arise.

That thinking and planning will have to begin at some stage, but many in transport seem to be working in a planning vacuum at this point in time due to the three-year-long large scale uncertainties of Brexit.

Coming back from Turin by train to Paris last year we were stopped at a small station on the Italian border whilst the train was boarded by customs officers and the police. It could be that they were looking for someone/thing specific but they are both in the EU with free movement. It took 1/2 hour for this little exercise to be carried out so you can imagine what it will be like on Eurostar trains, Eurotunnel and the passenger ferries, let alone the checks on freight.

I can remember the delays at the ferry ports before we were part of the EU. It was quicker to go through the red light and declare our over the limit wine purchases which the customs officers always let go through without charge because we didn't have cigarettes, spirits, beer or perfume.

For what it is worth, I do not feel that anything will happen on the 31st of October at the channel ports or tunnel in regard to delays to vehicles. Certainly many in the Road Haulage industry believe that the ports will not have made sufficient preparation to carry out all the checks and paperwork that will have become necessary for tariffs etc to be implemented.

Therefore Britain could have a period of several weeks before pressure from EU member nation governments insists that the internal market, treaties and structures of the European Union are protected and the rules for third nations trading with the EU are applied to the United Kingdom. The foregoing will then mean that checks at the channel ports and tunnel will have to commence.

Certainly, while we were in Belgium last week investigating whether it would be in the interests of our company to expand the company operations into Europe, it became apparent that many we spoke to on Britain leaving the EU could not bring themselves to believe or even actually thought on the prospect that Britain could leave Europe on a no-deal basis. Therefore all those we met spoke on the assumption that nothing will change in their dealings with any British company into the future.

Indeed it was only when we raised the work our company may carry out in connection with road the transport industry should we expand into Europe that Brexit got discussed at all.

Therefore, it very much appeared that Brexit is not at the forefront of peoples thinking within Europe in the same way that it is in Britain.

Even while working back in Britain this week, I feel that while many working in the transport industry are making what preparations they can for a no-deal Brexit, no one can really bring themselves to truly believe that action will actually take place.

Therefore, and as stated, I do not believe that anything detrimental to frictionless movement of those four hundred vehicles per hour through the channel ports or tunnel will come about on the 31st of October even if Britain crashes out of the European Union with no deal on that day.

Checks and therefore delays will commence at sometime after that date, but when will depend as much in a change of attitude and thinking as will in the physical practicalities of introducing widespread checks at the ports and tunnel I feel.

And if the companies trying to import from the EU are holding things up at the ports etc., won't that hold imports from other countries up too?

You're not listening to Grandad are you Callistemon
Very funny MaizieD!!

Grandad what do think would happen if trucks are held up and food is spoiled? Who will bear the cost?
From our experience, when fresh food was held up in transit and was less than optimal, the supermarkets refused it (they normally only pay, albeit much later, upon receipt).
The farmer had to bear the cost, threatening his/her livelihood.
Trying to get recompense from the transport company proved impossible. Insurance against these losses would be prohibitive in any case.
I wonder who would bear responsibility if this should happen.

It won't be only that Callistemon. Think of all the fruit we expect eat even during the Winter months, and we leave on 31st October. Could there be a worse time of the year to leave on?

You're not listening to Grandad, are you, Callistemon?

Forty percent of all fresh and chilled food we eat in Britain is produced within other European Union countries

That is not the sort of thing that you can panic buy and keep in storage.

And, before anyone suggests that we fly fresh food in from other countries, there is a big question mark over the effect that no deal would have on air travel and freight.

Of course there will be a shortage of food on the shelves because those who can will panic-buy and that will make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Well said Varian

And yet, they are such good conmen, that quite a lot of ordinary folk, just about managing folk and even poor folk still support them. Such is the power of the right wing tabloids.

Did you see the interview with Liz Truss when she was asked how she was affected by austerity and she giggled like a 12 year old they are all making a fortune out of Brexit and are planning to make much more selling our best services and the NHS to Trump and co.

Forty percent of all fresh and chilled food we eat in Britain is produced within other European Union countries and transported into the United Kingdom on trucks via the channel ports or channel tunnel. The foregoing amounts to ten thousand trucks each day entering Britain with many running on just in time delivery schedules (JIT) as they work into and out of the large distribution centres operated by the supermarket companies and other large retailers.

The trucks that operate the services between those centres and the retail stores are in the main the very large multi-national distribution companies such as DHL, Bibby Distribution, Wincanton Distribution and Stobart. However, their vehicles are not the ones that carry out the cross channel operations, as those are the predominant operations of smaller hauliers and owner-drivers running on subcontract to either the retailers directly or the above large distribution companies.

The above large distribution companies are represented by the Freight Transport Association (FTA), while the smaller hauliers are represented by the Road Haulage Association (RHA).

The channel ports and tunnel have over the last twenty-five years built up their handling facilities so as to bring through those ten thousand trucks per day (with many being on JIT schedules) ensuring that no delays whatsoever are incurred by those vehicles. In that, the RHA, FTA, and all the Senior Supermarket managements have now continually stated that should a consistent delay of only twenty to thirty minutes impede those vehicles at the ports and channel tunnel then the queues of vehicles would steadily build-up, where thirty minutes would turn into two hours, two hours into one whole day and one day into three days and so it would go on.

The above is not "scaremongering talk", it is a scenario that has been carefully worked out based on the schedules those vehicles run on at present. That scenario also predicts a huge price rise in the cost of fresh, frozen and chilled food, a drop in the quality of that food, and shortages that would eventually lead to many products becoming unobtainable.

I have noticed that one forum member in this thread has stated that price increases would not affect those who have " somewhat better wealth." I have to say that if such attitudes are seen to prevail by those already "just about managing" then I would genuinely fear for the stability of this nation, as widespread disorder and violence could well erupt on our streets.