A very English Brexit

That is how democracy works.

Well, it isn't, Roseleah; that is a very crude and simplistic version.

But I really CBA to argue the toss with you..

But we could use that argument every time there is an election. The Tories won by a very small majority last time but the fact remains that they DID win and so we have a Tory government. Corbyn kept saying 'we're ready to form a government' so he obviously didn't accept the result. He keeps saying now that we should have another election, even though the present indications are that Labour wouldn't win.

We had a referendum...the majority, however small, voted to leave the EU. That was the result. That is how democracy works.

I think the real reason for the division is the assumption that a minority of the population can force the rest of the country into reducing freedoms, and economic decline whether they want to or not. The referendum result was not the huge landslide you would imagine if you listen to the extremists rhetoric. It was a small % of the total population many of whom are no longer with us. This idea we should all “pull together “ to make a success of the risk of food and medicine shortages, civil unrest, a sinking £, job losses is a non starter. The undemocratically elected leader of a weak government, whose strings are being pulled by unelected advisors, threatening to assume the position of dictator and ignore the wishes of parliament is not democracy in anyone’s book.

I am definitely for decentralisation from Westminster.

Parliament should be held somewhere more central (yes I know that would raise a whole other argument), or indeed even move from time to time to different areas of the country in order to achieve a better, more rounded perspective.

McDonnell's 'proposal' to place the Exchequer 'in the North' is the right idea. Pity, really...

I thought the U.K. was one big family? Surely we should look at the referendum as a majority vote instead of splitting us up in a divisive way ‘the Scots didn’t vote for it, the Irish didn’t vote for it’. Well some of our ‘family’ did!

GracesGranMK3 - I've got to the stage of wondering when/where the 'ENGLISH' can sign up for Independence from Westminster.

Yes, Scotland should have another referendum on whether to leave the UK. Nicola Sturgeon is obsessed with it. While we're about it, how about Northern Ireland having one too? It will give them a chance to decide which is in their best interests..staying in the UK or becoming part of a united Ireland (which is really the best outcome for us). What about Wales? Could the country survive on its own?

"Nicola Sturgeon is one of those who thinks the Scottish referendum should be repeated until she likes the result"

The Scottish people voted No to independence in 2014 - before the Referendum of 2016, before we were due to leave the EU but that has now changed so of course the referendum should be re-run. Don't blame them at all.

Oh dear, lots of knickers in a twist on here today. Sex, politics and religion, always a no no unless you want to get people riled up. Everyone has different opinions, all of them are correct. There is no "wrong" opinion. It belongs to the person saying it and it's what they believe. End of.

Why should the thread be deleted?

If you don't like it, there are hundreds of other threads on Gransnet.

As far as I know, people in the UK are still allowed (within some limits) to voice their opinions.

Vote was corrupted by fraud, lies and illegalities, sazzl. The result was not 'safe' and it should have been re-run, as it would have been had it been mandatory rather than advisory. It was not democratic.

If you don't want to argue, that's fine. Others will do precisely what they want to do.

Well said Sazzl,agree 100%.

This thread is turning nasty and should be deleted. Brexit has been voted for and in a democracy that vote should be respected. Everyone had a choice to vote for yes or no in a confidential way. The same as Scotland voted for and against independence from the UK. The majority won. Why start arguing pros and cons of decisions already made?

For goodness sake,get use to it .....we are leaving the EU & it’s notthing to do with the ‘upper classes’,it’s the ordinary men & women on the street who voted to leave......lots of Scottish,Welsh & English people voted democratically to leave so it’s time people stopped moaning about it & Just got on with their lives.

Good grief I have been out for a couple of hours and come back to rosieleah telling us that if only we knew our place and listened to our betters then all would be well. FFS.

Better the right-wing fascist than all this dreadful PC liberal stuff treating everyone as equal hey RosieLeah.

I know we have not paid €18 billion in past but that is the figure if we want to remain after new pay round. The reason we would have to pay more is we have had more growth in uk than they have had on EU. That is another good reason to leave now before they increase price massively. Our growth in last quarter was 0.4 and Germany and France both 0.2 EU doing worse than rest of world in trading. We sell much less to EU than other EU countries. Only 15% of all exports go to EU countries. Most of our exports go to non EU countries. That is why it is not worth amount we pay to trade with them.

Since when has there been some kind of New Age dictatorship in the UK? This is turning into a bad farce.

Yes, well, GrannyLondon. People keep complaining about how standards have fallen in all aspects of life. And when did all this start? When the 'posh folk' took a back seat and allowed all the New Age stuff to dictate how society behaved. That's when the decline started. A lot of the so-called 'right-wingers' are actually very decent people who want to see British society get back to living by decent standards, with children raised to have respect, good manners, and a sense of responsibility.

I have come to the conclusion that the English like & feel more comfortable being bossed about by posh people.
So forelocks out & get tugging.

Hear, hear, jayemwhite

Yes, you do. I don't need to repeat what I've already said. The problem is that many people feel the same...just as many people disagree. This is the situation this country finds itself in.

Time will tell whether the decision was the right one. I suspect that once we leave, other countries will follow suit.

And we know why that is, don't we RosieLeah.

Why?

I agree that since the referendum, we are all better informed about what being part of the EU actually means. For me, and for many others, the knowledge has actually strengthened my opinion not changed it!