A very English Brexit

**Jayemwhite
Absolutely, well said . I agree with every word*

grannygranby - hear, hear!

Great link, Railman. Plus ca change...

What utter nonsense is spouted here ,Scotland is NOT subsidised by England ..fact .Philip Hammond recently admitted that without the input of Scottish cash the treasury would be in dire states ,unable to pay their debts .

Secondly WHY as a PARTNER in this disunited union should we have to ask permission to have a referendum? Nobody asked our permission to run the Brexit referendum ..it was just landed on us.WE voted by 63% to REMAIN in the EU .Thats a larger margin than voted leave in the rUK .

Scotland is currently the dumping ground ..literally for old subs ,and current Trident..though not so current as its an out of date system that has masses of issues .

The vast majority of Scots dont want it here ,when polled 82% said take it somewhere else .Its sited 20 miles from our largest city and would destroy the whole central belt if there was an accident ...a serious accident .There have been over 200 "incidents " in the last 5 years involving the nuclear"deterrent"
We have plans in place for our own forces and security.Surely we should remember the 280,000 needless deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki on these days in 1945 and make sure that innocents dont have to suffer the loss and maiming on that scale ever again .

Pensions ? You have heard of WASPI women ,scammed out of an average of £40.000 by westminster ?

Scotland will flourish without the UK (england) dragging us under .Lord Ashcrofts poll released this week shows a support of 52% FOR independence and thats without counting the EU nationals who live here or teh 16/17 year olds who are entitled to vote .

I wish my English friends and family no harm but honestly we have to be in control of OUR country and run it to suit the people of Scotland not the Elite of Westminster and Buck house

As and English person living in Wales, the Brexit argument has filled me with dismay and I now hate the Tory Party with a passion for creating this mess. I was against Scottish Independence when they first had the vote but I now think they should have their independence. I shall be campaigning for Welsh independence too. The sooner Scotland and Wales break from England the better. England is much worse for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales than the EU is.

We never knew as much about the EU before the referendum. It’s a dreadful undemocratic organisation. We need to be free of it before we are engulfed by it. As for Scotland. They are protected by the UK, would need their own military without us.

Come on Grans. Think of the future for our children, where we would have to adhere to all EU rules, protect their pensions, look after all the failing states and their populations at the expense of our people.
It’s a gravy train and one they wish to protect, better the devils we know

Anniel "I marvel that those of us born before the Second World War managed to live a perfectly normal life before the EU. Once the war was over we lived without the EU". Yes, of course we did but life is very different now. Do you want to go back to those days, no Internet, no central heating, limited range of food, living hand to mouth, no foreign travel. You simply cannot compare life so long ago to life today. We need to look forward and remember the sun didn't always shine in those day.

Anniel your post is somewhat contradictory. You are, like most of us I hope, pro-democracy and you say ^You will recall we held a referendum and the majority of those voting want to leave England voted overwhelmingly to leave if you look at the Constituency results. That is what we call democracy^. but then you talk, with relish of what may happen to the remain supporting Mps ^the machinations of the remainers in Parliament will see them deselected when the next election comes^. Can I just point out that not everyone voted for Brexit and that MPs have the responsibility to represent all of their constituents, not just those who voted to leave? This applies to both Tory and Labour MPs by the way before you accuse me of being a 'leftie'

I feel we are careering towards the Brexit cliff edge and despite many of us trying to apply the brakes there is nothing that can stop us. Or is there?
unitetoremain.org.
It worked in the Brecon by-election.

Graces Gran, you have a right to your opinion but those who voted to leave are entitled to theirs. I marvel that those of us born before the Second World War managed to live a perfectly normal life before the EU. Once the war was over we lived without the EU. I could accept the European Economic Union, but the mission creep since those early heady days has been inexorable. If I was Scottish or Irish then I would love the EU because both countries are net recipients of a lot of money mostly paid by Germany the UK and France. You will recall we held a referendum and the majority of those voting want to leave England voted overwhelmingly to leave if you look at the Constituency results. That is what we call democracy.

I am a working class child from a Council house in Liverpool who won a scholarship to grammar school. I married too young and struggled but by the time I wa in my 50s I had an MSc from LSE so us working class girls could get ahead by sheer hard work.

I am a dreaded Tory and actually voted as a member of the Party for Boris Johnson. I have no envy for other people who do well. Boris Johnson won a scholarship to Eton proving he has a real brain.

I love Scotland but not the SNP. I would not be that sad if they chose independence but how they will manage without the Barnett formula money they receive fro central govt will be interesting. The EU may not have as much money for the Scots and Irish when we leave. I nearly laughed aloud at 5he suggestion we are not ruled by the EU. What about the European.Court and the treaties which if a nation does not agree, they keep voting until they do. All very boring nonsense. I do not post often here but we are not all left wingers. I think that Magic Grandpa Corbyn would be a disaster for the UK and that the machinations of the remainers in Parliament will see them deselected when the next election comes. We live in interesting times.

I can't see why we are leaving the EU where we have/ had good trade deals, and excellent eu citizen working here. The majority were the young and healthy people doing a good job for this country and paying taxes here. Plus we had the opt outs we wanted. It was the best deal ever. Now we have all stress and job losses and what a waste of money and time on doing brexit. And then it's forecast we'll be in a recession. I'm so sorry for the younger people losing EU citizenship too.
I really can't see any positives in leaving, just problems

This might help Nanny41. We have travel plans for Eu after Brexit if and when. Found this Govt link in the Guardian. Can’t comment if anyone knows what’s really happening, heaven help us, but sounds like good advice!

euexit.campaign.gov.uk

When are they going to realise that most of what has been going on is illegal? The laws in this country are made by Parliament, elected by the people, and not by the people directly, referendum or not. It was illegal for Cameron and May to declare that Brexit MUST happen because on one day in 2016 a very slim majority in a referendum came out in favour of it. Nothing in the British constitution has changed, and a referendum is only supposed to be a gauge of popular opinion. If they had held a referendum on Unicorns for All, even if it had come out as 75% in favour, if it proved to be undeliverable by Parliament, no amount of storming the Palace of Westminster or bleating about "democracy" would make it deliverable. Brexit appears to be turning out tha same. BY LAW the decision has to be made by Parliament.

To those Leavers who counter the suggestion that they didn't know what they were voting for, by turning it round and saying remainers didn't know either, I need to remind you that Leave meant making a change, for good or bad, while Remain meant keeping the status quo. So Remain voters knew EXACTLY what they voted for, because they already had it. There's been plenty of "what kind of Brexit did you think you were voting for" but it would be a nonsense to ask "what kind of Remain did you think you were voting for" because by definition, it was for what we already knew. There isn't more than one kind of remain.

"Faceless bureaucrats in Brussels telling us what to do" is either forgetting or ignorant of the fact that we have an equal part in all these decisions and "our money" which is being used to build "bridges in Barcelona" is actually the EU's money, to which we contribute only a small amount, and is also used for things like rebuilding the centres of cities like Liverpool.

British people who voted Brexit wanting to see Britain become independent and great again have actually caused us to become the biggest laughing stock ever and seen as being totally controlled by Trump ! I travel a lot and a few years ago being English was respected, revered even , now it just opens the doors to pity , sympathy, sneering, raised eyebrows, sadness, and snarky grins. I would never have believed in 2016 how fast we would go downhill in people’s estimation! I naively thought it wouldn’t make much difference. I’m sad when a labourer on 400 Euros pm in East Europe thinks my country is stupid.

By the way I don’t believe US desperate for a no deal Brexit whilst ripping up the nuclear arms treaty with Russia are a coincidence .

Linda369 - apparently the Crick Institute is no longer being invited to participate in research projects.

"Sorry, Brussels 'rules' everybody in the UK - using an unelected, unaccountable team, who love to dispense your money with open hands. They build motorways in Madeira, bridges in Barcelona, and 'support' Welsh sheep farmers with our own money, all the while despising us and refusing (French) to put our products on the shelves of their supermarkets."

What a lot of tosh, GraceGranMK3 - We do elect our MEPs, y'know. And have you visited France much? There are plenty of international products on their shelves, though in truth their fresh food is far better than ours (see any small town's weekly market). As for supporting our farmers: well I'm dreading what's going to happen to our farming and fishing industries after Brexit. They get masses of input from the EU and yet mainly voted out. I'm wondering what they'll do for hands-on labour when they can no longer get either the staff or subsidies.

I’m very patriotic and would be very open to independence if it weren’t for several nasty facts! UK has grown to be 6th largest economy under EU and we make colossal amounts out of EU clearing. The referendum was voted on based on lies like £234 million into NHS, less immigration, Turkey joining EU. Boris’s speeches are written by Steve Bannon , a US troublemaker who got Trump in with racist type views and who is trying to destroy the EU for benefit of Russia and America. Farage received millions from Russia via Aaron Banks , why? Trump said NHS was on the table in US deal and I believe him he’s too stupid to cover things up. Cummings is not an MP and is spending 1 million pounds printing leaflets to convince you Brexit no deal is good , if it was , it wouldn’t need leaflets. Who pays him? Sorry but too much about Brexit no deal stinks. Yes it’s an English Brexit and I hope Scotland leaves and does what Southern Ireland did which is thrive. We as grannies have a duty to our GC’s after all don’t we have the wisdom of experience ? A no deal Brexit will impact young families the hardest ! I’m worried for them not me as I don’t have to be in UK if it gets bad. I welcome all grannies opinions and all sides , and always open to other views! I also appreciate some ladies are not interested but there are other threads for them.

there are very very good reasons why the right wing privileged establishment wanted out of the EU - because they were about to bring in laws to stop non taxable offshore holdings. Brexiteers manipulated and appealed to the insecurity of peoples' racism tapping into islamophobia and immigration that has nothing to do with the EU. But mainly, ironically, giving people a voice to upset the apple cart after austerity had such a bad effect...food banks fo working people - humiliating. If they are hurting why not hurt others. It's tragic. The EU may be a cumbersone great bureaucracy but it it will always work together over workers rights, women's rights, human rights, climate change...do not expect progressive politics from Johnson et al...they treat the common man/woman like fodder and are laughing all the way to the bank. poor Brexiteers are turkeys voting for Christmas. The top earners have got richer since austerity...the poor have got poorer. Don't forget that glorious past so many Brexiteers crave - the height of the Victorian Empire when Britain ruled the waves and the world we had the poorest people on the planet, no education, no hospitals only workhouses...and boy was the nation rich...I have been proud to be part of Europe, many times ashamed of being British when they show their arrogant ignorant nationalism. We'll just become a second rate State of the USA...where only those that have get...woe betide if you fall between the cracks. It is so depressing.

I listened to Sir Paul Nurse who is head of the Francis Crick institute talk about how disastrous Brexit will be for science and medicine. It was very scary especially for anyone with a medical condition.

We must remember that a lot of these things are government policy, not rules made by the EU. These problems won't go away when we leave.

Animal welfare is one area where the EU has been a good influence. Those of us who care about it, must make our voices heard.

What is a codisal, Keffie?

The 48 hour working week is a bit unusual. Junior doctors often work 60, 70 80 hour weeks but as long as it averages out to 48 a week then it's ok.

You can also opt-out of this if you wish to work longer hours. Which I think is good. It's up to the individual.

EU funded research? We fund the research as well! Also, having a cancer research scientist in my life they've been assured that there will be minimal issues. Apart from anything else we work with countries all round the world. My son attends far more conferences in USA and Asia, than Europe.

I think a lot of the laws that the EU has passed are laws that have been adopted in the western world. Smoking at work/public places would most definitely have been banned, EU or no EU.

As for the NHS. This is one area when I wish we were more like our EU counterparts and funded the EU in a more responsible way. It's failing and no amount of money will fix it.

Well said, Cindersdad! I agree wholeheartedly!

Yes I did and have recommended others watch it too. It’s chilling what they got away with then and continue to get away with now.