Is the UK Union now at risk.

Question.

Is the UK Union now at risk.

Yes. It is more at risk because :-

1). The divide over the EU Refendum.

2). If Corbyns Labour wins a General Election, his politics over Ireland for example is only too well known

3). It is also at risk because of the Political pacts/shenanigans /backroom deals that we are witnessing happening between political parties now. Only a fool doesn't see parties who will unite to bring about another Coalition/Supply and Confidence government are going to push for Independence if they are nationalists. Twas ever thus. Chances of a Labour/SNP Coalition, Supply and Confidence government is extremely high.

I still do not understand the reason for Independence being aligned with being in the European Union.

It is a twisted logic to me.

Surely if the Scottish/Welsh want Independence isn't that because they no longer want to conform to accepting other constitutions rules?

The word Independence will continue to mean Semi-Independent as long as it is either in the United Kingdom or the European Union. Within the construct of the UK Union Scotland has devolution but in the European Union it will be a pure rule taker and the EU will in time legislate for it's defense, spending, financial taxes etc.

Well said Marthabeck.

I am horrified to be stripped of my European citizenship despite a system in which 62% of my fellow Scots voted no to Brexit.

I've yet to find anyone who actually wants a no-deal exit and Scottish past experiences of Trump and Boris fill me with dread.

I have close relatives who are English and spent two of the happiest periods in my life in English cities.

I completely get that people south of the border were unhappy and felt neglected and unlistened to when they voted to leave the EU, but -- Boris's false cash bribes apart -- not one of these issues will be solved by leaving a friendly, close, trading bloc for unreliable markets and deals further from home.

What is the point of washing, squashing and recycling rubbish and denying myself air travel to be more "green" if we as a country are about to commit to far distant markets and the added expense of two-way trade transport and the huge cost of erecting our border defences against the EU, which are looking more like Trump's insular wall folly?

We had a special place in Europe, with opt-outs and allowances other countries envied. I was proud to be Scottish, British and European. Only one of those sentiments is going to survive into November, I fear, and the European one will be so difficult to wrench back once gone.

Hilarious ?

I am sad that it is mainly English bigotry, that is putting the Union in danger. That bigotry we have witnessed so frequently in these columns from those suffering from a Brexit dangerous virus, created by sheer spiteful dogma and caught by reading extreme deceitful RW propaganda.
I can understand our Scottish brethren feelings, they want to remain within the EU, I also do but unless Article 50 is revoked my desires will be ignored by Number 10. I feel as if I am being robbed of my birth rights by sheer bigotry.

Saw a cartoon today that both made me laugh and cry

'Little England will be the death of Great Britain'

Caledonai14 that sounds ideal for everyone but really unlikely to happen, given the attitudes and behaviour of the UK Government in recent years.

GabriellaG54

May I suggest once again people read the McCrone Report. It refers to Scottish Oil. WM under Thatcher made sure it had more than its fair share of that asset. Boris - who has no liking for Scotland - now has his eye on a far more precious commodity which Scotland is not short of - Water. You may well be knocking on our door Gabriella.

You've lost it, GG. Go and have a cup of tea.

How rude! Are you trying to get rid of GG because you don't have an argument?

... or perhaps, like Canada, we could simply ask politely to be independent and then work together with the EU and the rUK to achieve the most positive - and least damaging - outcome for both states?

All the magic proposed solutions to the Irish border problem could surely apply between England and Scotland. Dual nationality and the kind of border arrangement the US has with Canada could apply.

A very long transition period (not to be wasted by either side) with no red lines would be facilitated by positivity on both sides and a bit of give and take -- for example security of speed, supply lines and transport for west coast shellfish and seafood exporters could be matched by a joint bid to protect and better-manage Scottish fishing waters, particularly for east coast fishermen from the whole of the UK.

We'd still be in the Commonwealth so the Queen would be head of State unless and until a very large proportion of the Scottish electorate wanted otherwise and, even then, former Commonwealth protectorates seem to be able to rejoin at will for sporting and other cultural purposes.

As has already been pointed out elsewhere and on this thread, independence does not mean voting for an SNP government. After independence, any and all parties would have an equal chance, especially with our balanced proportional voting system which may lead to some unwilling coalitions, but does give voice to smaller parties.

This could all be achieved with goodwill on both sides, but the Westminster blaming of the EU for our own mess suggests they won't make it pleasant or easy for Scotland...and you have to wonder why?

Many Scottish people, wherever they reside, are rightly proud of their 'home' country and a large proportion of those same people think they would be better off managing on their own without WM 'interference' and money grabbing.
I'm all for them having independence and their own monetary system, as long as it's a clean break and they never knock at our door asking for assistance if their grand plans fall apart.

I'm not sure what your education was mm but they clearly failed you if all you can do is make derogatory, personal remarks. As you can see two can play at that game.

So you quote from a newspaper you would throw in the bin mm? I don't think it is me who has lost it.

Everyone should look at a cross section of experts, minniemoo but you really need to know how expert they are. All experts are not equal. I doubt there us anyone who is used to research and used to putting forward "expert knowledge" in order to gain information, evidence and ideas, who won't check on the standing of that expert. I do not believe that anyone would, for example, put Ruth Lea's expertise on a par with, say, the Governor of the Bank of England. I doubt even she would. And yet, when they need an "expert" to represent the leave view, we see her so often. Why? Simply because there are only a couple of people who have any level of expertise who actually back a no-deal Brexit.

You've lost it, GG. Go and have a cup of tea.

Aaah. I'm with you now, GGMK3. I don't blame you! Trying to distance yourself from the extremists.

And you know very well that it's the Remainers that would read that as 'will'! Leavers would look at it and throw it in the bin, probably without even reading it.

But the Remainers would and shriek that this is what's on the cards! Because that's exactly what you and other Remainers have been doing on these political threads for months!

You are just innately inaccurate Minniemooand this what your lot, including the Express, play on. They actually say 18% not the 17% you mention - inaccuracy (1). It also doesn't "quote" GO. It says "you may remember", - inaccuracy (2). Well you may, but that does not mean it happened. If there had been a quote that cited their lie you can be sure they would have used it rather than twisting the fiction once again.

Well, GGMK3. No idea what you're trying to say with most of your comment. Are you suggesting that you didn't believe the Project Fear in 2016 when the sky was due to fall in the day after the Vote to Leave? So you pick and choose when you believe your experts! Good idea!

As for your initial sentence, is that with regard to the weak pound? I think you'll find many economists will be well aware of this. It's well known and most people with the scantest knowledge of money know that certain parts of society benefit from a weak pound.

I'm not suggesting that a weak pound is a great thing and we'd certainly hope for it to improve. But that doesn't mean some people aren't benefitting.

Quite interesting reading

www.ft.com/content/28787548-8c82-11e6-8cb7-e7ada1d123b1

I have just received an email from an estate agent and they quote that "after a no-deal Brexit house prices may drop by up to 30%". It is only a leaver who would read that as "will", everywhere, or some other extreme, simply because they are extremists.

I don't think any economist would say that Minniemoo. Strangely, my memory is of that interpretation being put on the much more academic language of the economists by the leavers. Their propaganda has been much more efficient than those backing remain or a deal simply because, as we know from their leader, the don't mind lying.

Hi Maw, I am not making any reference to anything other than what I posted. That we were all warned that within days of a Leave vote we would see all these things happening. As the article points out.

It didn't happen that way and it's fine to say things are happening now but Project Fear 2016 went far too far. This article from the Express (not my favourite paper) quotes Oborne discussing how house prices would drop immediately by 17%.

www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/841706/brexit-news-project-fear-house-prices-uk-european-union

It's also a sad fact of life that jobs have been lost up and down the country ever since I was a child in the dim and distant past. We didn't have Brexit to blame.

Also, something that is never mentioned, a weak pound can sometimes beneficial.

Not only that, but the BoE poured millions into the economy.

We would plunge into recession, house prices would immediately plummet and numerous jobs would be lost

With respect Minniemoo in many parts of the country house prices have at best stalled, in many, dropped, and general experience suggests houses are harder to shift because of economic uncertainty.
Ask the car workers in the NE if jobs have not been lost, and look at the current shrinking of the economy
“pound hits two year low as Brexit shrinks U.K. economy” (from the DT 9 August) , - and it hasn’t even happened yet.

Here is the precious Guardian in 2016 wondering what happened to all the terrible things that were bound to happen within days of a Leave vote.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/20/brexit-eu-referendum-economy-project-fear

Indeed- some people have totally failed to grasp that we are not here in an ordinary voting situation, which can be rectified a a few years time.

""When Mark Carney and others talked about what would happen after Brexit they were talking about when we left. Not what would happen immediately after the referendum. Brexit hasn't happened yet. ""

Oh no, no no no. I can't let that pass. I'm quite sure I am not the only one here who remembers these things were forecast to happen within 'days' of a leave vote. Literally days.

We would plunge into recession, house prices would immediately plummet and numerous jobs would be lost.

It did not happen