Corbyn as caretaker

I don't see it as dishonourable behaviour Jabberwok. They are behaving both within the law and within our democratic structure. Not wanting what you want cannot be described as honourable just because that would be your choice. Many of those opposing no-deal know their careers have probably been ended by their decision to do what they believe to be right. I would call that honourable. I imagine there are people trying to behave honourably on both sides. These derogatory adjectives are very overused.

Lessismore. You asked who I favour. Well as Boris is our only hope to deliver Brexit then it has to be him for all his faults.

Apology accepted GG3. We'll just leave it at that then. I personally would not expect any opposition to behave so dishonourably, however much I wanted a particular result.

Who do you favour JE?

It's a ' Coup ' led by parties and supporters who are showing lack of principle and outright hypocrisy!

It is being promoted as a ' Party of Unity' but the truth is it is a ' Party of Disunity '.

The respective parties are not in harmony and hold different opinions as to Remain or Leave, Article 50, and will as stated some will not even abide by another Referendum result ' if it does not go their way, AGAIN ! "

This is not progression, it is holding the UK to months of more indecision and political infighting will still take place.

How dare you patronise me! So you think it's fine to bring down a government for trying to deliver what people and THEY ( remember article 50) voted for. People may not have voted how to leave one way or the other as people weren't asked, but whipped or no, 80% of MP's voted for article 50 where the default is leaving WITHOUT a deal. Fri 16-Aug-19 16:27:41

I wasn't intending to patronise you and I apologise if you felt it read that way Jabberwok.

It doesn't matter whether I think it's fine or not. Parliament is sovereign (under the crown) not the people. I can't change that just to make you feel better and to be honest, I wouldn't want to. I am happy for someone to show I am wrong but I don't think there is any country where sovereignty is entirely in the hands of the people. That's why people go into politics. They feel strongly about particular things and that is where they can make a difference.

You are rehearsing a very old argument in your post and seem to be getting very angry so I do not expect you to like what I say. Only the MPs know exactly what they expected from Article 50 and they have every right to try and make the outcome the one they intended it to be. I am not sure that shouting WITHOUT a deal at me makes any difference. What Article 50 says now is the same as it said in March and Parliament decided to have an extension. They voted, quite legally and therefore democratically for an extension. The writing of Article 50 does not seem to preclude a change in the date and we know it doesn't preclude revocation. While these are available to Parliament no one is doing anything wrong by using them.

As I said before bringing down the government is the job of the opposition. I rather think if the Labour Party was in power and the Conservatives (if they still exist) were trying to oust them there would be cheers rather than moans on this forum.

they have every right to fight for what they do believe in

They all, more or less to a wo/man, voted in favour of triggering Article 50. Was that not a belief that we were going to leave the EU?

Brexit: MPs overwhelmingly back Article 50 bill

MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Prime Minister Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way

They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114

The SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38833883

If the EU wants no further negotiation, and they more or less said "take it or leave it"when Theresa May came back from Brussels with the last Withdrawal Agreement - which parliament rejected, and rightly so - what then?

No Deal is our strongest hand.

A CEO of a fairly large manufacturing company I spoke to a few days ago believed we need to take that step and THEN we'd see a deal sorted with the EU in a fairly short space of time, on our terms, not just theirs. He believes that would be the quickest way to break the deadlock and end this awful period of limbo which may well see Farage installed in 10 Downing St otherwise.

Amen to that JE!

I'm not sure it's true that people vote for the party rather than the leader as was stated earlier.

Corbyn's brand of socialism is SO far to the Left that his policies have alienated many traditional Labour supporters.

Long may he reign !!!

How dare you patronise me! So you think it's fine to bring down a government for trying to deliver what people and THEY ( remember article 50) voted for. People may not have voted how to leave one way or the other as people weren't asked, but whipped or no, 80% of MP's voted for article 50 where the default is leaving WITHOUT a deal.

I don't think any of us are going to be asked if we even agree to a government or national unity, never mind who runs it, how long for, or anything else about it!!! Wow, democracy in action!!!

No, we won't be - if they can sort it out and that is exactly our democracy in action. By not attempting to understand it you will always be put out because you read it wrongly in the first place.

I shall keep repeating this until you either understand or stop making erroneous and ill-founded remarks. We advised parliament - that is a legal truth. Sovereignty does not lie with us but with "the Crown in Parliament". We can hope to influence parliament but nothing more and they take notice of this by understanding what will get them voted in or out next time.

MP's are plotting to bring down a democratically elected government and replace it a government of their choosing?!! Fri 16-Aug-19 14:14:37

MPs are perfectly entitled to do this, indeed it is the duty of the opposition to do so. That is how our democracy works. It isn't "plotting" or any of the other over-the-top expression the Daily Mail teaches people to use, it is our democracy. If a government cannot withstand a vote of no confidence it will have no standing in Parliament - how could it?

I get really fed up with comments that show people don't know their democratic law from their political interest and then make outlandish and erroneous statements like this.

Politically you want one thing and you may not be going to get it - others don't want it. That does not make MPs or the people anti-democratic simply because their view is different to yours, it just means they do not share your opinion politically and they have every right to fight for what they do believe in.

I don't think any of us are going to be asked if we even agree to a government or national unity, never mind who runs it, how long for, or anything else about it!!! Wow, democracy in action!!!

B) They want a 2nd Referendum but do not agree as to whether they would abide by the result, disgraceful

Thanks for clarifying it all in your post above POGS

I quote just one of the points from POGS' post which lays bare exactly the games Remainer politicians are playing in order to stop Brexit.

It has become ludicrous, this attempted overthrow of the government by Remainers to prevent Brexit happening. They are laughing at the electorate.

From the Labour Leave campaign.

There is no other way to describe this than a Remain coup, a takeover of government by a cross-party group of Remainers who refuse to accept the referendum result
Both those involved and the Remain media are not remotely troubled by the coup itself, all they are squabbling over is who leads it as the new PM.

This is the contempt they show for our democratic rights

We don't want a Tory government a moment longer than necessary, but what we do want is the biggest democratic vote in British history respected - and that means delivering a real Brexit

I do not care who delivers Brexit, but it has to happen. We might as well board up the HOC otherwise, forget about politicians representing us and let anarchy prevail, because there will be a majority of the population of the UK who will never accept our democracy being so arrogantly flouted by Remain politicians who continue to ignore and dismiss the result of the referendum.

It's disgraceful.

Demonstrates how bad things are when there is genuine talk of a government of national unity but no agreement on who should lead it. Conversely perhaps things haven’t reached the truly awful stage when presumably we’d accept even Corbyn to lead us out of the mess so long as this government truly was restricted to extending Article 50 (revoking if need be) and then going back to the people with an election. Heaven help us though if a Boris Johnson led Tory Party then went and won it or even worse a Brexit Party/Conservative coalition!

Thank you for pointing that out Annie. I am staunchly against him because his arrogance caused this mess.

I don't care one way or the other about Corbyn. I think we have a fair understanding of your issues with the man.

MP's are plotting to bring down a democratically elected government and replace it a government of their choosing?!! dictatorship comes to mind and I can't believe that this won't get challenged in court! The makeup of this interim government is being chosen by MP's for a period of time of their choosing?!! Can we believe these people who have proved again and again how duplicitous, treacherous and downright dishonest they are, to do the right thing?!! A deal that they know will never fly because of the immovable backstop? to remain in the EU by back door methods? Ah! now your talking!!!!!

Cameron isn’t an MP

staunch is a funny word isn't it?

I am staunchly against Cameron.

JenniferEccles there are staunch supporters of Corbyn on this forum.

It won’t stop the staunch socialists from voting Labour JenniferEccles in the same way that tories who don’t like Boris will still vote Conservative.

It is enormously reassuring to me to see how virtually nobody on here has a good word to say about Corbyn, especially as there is the possibility of a General Election in the near future.

Varian, this, exactly 'We know that Boris Johnson and his ERGs would never accept either of them but the key question is whether Corbyn could step back and put the country before his personal ambition and tell his colleagues to do the same. He might then go down in history as a statesman with his reputation greatly enhanced.'

because now I see him, and 1000s upon 1000s like me - as a vile opportunist who has sat on that fence and his hands to let it come to this disastrous stage- so he can then blackmail us all remainers with 'it's me or hard Brexit'- putting himself then his Party, way above the needs of the country. And worse, it is now clear that he and McCluskey have been plotting this all along - waiting to the very last minute- so there will be no other choice. I am absolutely and totally disgusted with him.

We need an interim Government with senior figures from both sides which can command a majority of respect in the house, something JC cannot and will not.

The Lib Dems/Greens have stated they want NO BREXIT, REVOKE ARTICLE 50, would in a 2nd referendum NEVER ACCEPT A VOTE TO LEAVE.

The so called Party of Unity is being concocted by parties who will fight like cats in a sack eventually, they are hardly polite to one another now. The parties involved have no principles and are outright hypocrites because they will actually or once elect an ' Unelected Leader', be an ' Undemocratic Party' presumably be content to ' Prorogue Parliament' after all the abuse they have thrown at the government which was legitimate.

How can you have a ' Party of Unity' where the respective parties do not agree with the final solution?

How can you have a ' Party of Unity ' that is made up of parties who have spoken of how disgraceful our politics has been and propagandised issues such as ' Unelected Leaders ', ' Proroguing of Parliament, ' Undemocratic Government ' who now think those' priciples' no longer apply because ' They say so'?

They think they can pull the wool over the eyes of everybody because they are right and nobody should question their outright hypocrisy and lack of principle. Their followers are doing the exact same.

Well I challenge this Party of Unity because it is nothing short of an Undemocratic Coup by politicians who have for 3 years done anything and everything to thwart the EU Referendum Result and have never given a toss about democracy.

Corbyn/Labour.
Has sat on the fence, flip flopped for 3 years and even now he is in a different position to the Lib Dems/Greens.

Liberal Democrats / Greens
Rejected the democratic EU Refendum from day one. They have both said they will ' NEVER ' accept a Leave vote even if the UK holds a 2nd Referendum paraded as a People's Vote for some unknown reason.

That's why the Lib Dems are known as the Oxymoron Party. To their credit they at least have been honest over their stance on Brexit but they are not being honest nor principled when it comes to creating a Party of Unity by using every method possible they have railed against.

SNP
Will join because they too do not want to abide by the UK decision and ironically want Independence from the UK but not Independence from the EU.

They see the opportunity for a backroom deal to hold another Independence Refendum as Corbyn/Labour will need them to join in either a Coalition or Supply and Confidence government if he does not get a majority at the next General Election.

The only common denominator these parties have is they are prepared to raise a Coup against the Government because they want to bring down the government to put ' them ' into power by fair means or foul. Who ' them ' will be heaven knows because a General Election will show them fighting like cats in a sack and the UK will have suffered more wasted time of politicians thinking of themselves not the country.

A) They hold different opinions as to Remain/Leave.

B) They want a 2nd Referendum but do not agree as to whether they would abide by the result, disgraceful.

C) They have different views over another Scottish Referendum.

D) They do not agree with each others politics.

E) They don't agree over Article 50. Albeit for a short period they will look united to get what they want and then argue the toss all over again whether to REVOKE or not. Parliament has voted against Revoking Article 50 but hey let's keep going until we get what what ' we' want.

F) Whatever they propose will still have to get their measures through Parliament and unless Labour uses a 3 Line whip that could prove to be as tough as the Conservatives are finding out.

The Party of Unity should use the Lib Dem slogan ' BOLLOCKS TO BREXIT'.

The problem is they don't all agree on that!

If Parliamentarians consider that Jeremy Corbyn is not a fit and proper person to lead an interim government, how on earth can the same Parliamentarians consider him to be a fit and proper person to lead an elected government?!!!