Liberal Democrats

I think Labour's idea for being out of the EU politically, but still to have trading agreements is bonkers. What that means in reality is leaving, then renegotiating from a position of weakness.

What would they be renegotiating?

How do you you know people wouldn't vote to stay in?

None of the parties has changed their position as far as I can see. One for out, one for in, one offering voters a vote either for leaving the political EU while remaining in the trading EU, or remaining and reforming.

I notice Benn has said that parliamentarians could take control once more on 19 October and add a confirmatory vote to anything the Tories bring back.

Don't be sorry for me. I believe 100% that the best option for the UK is to stay in the EU. My dream is that somebody will say "OK, chaps (and chapesses) that was a silly idea - let's get on with sorting this country out - but from within the EU".

I sincerely hope that politicians have taken note of why some people are so unhappy, although as many of them won't actually say, it's difficult to know.

I'd love politicians to get their heads together and work out strategies for reviving our former industrial towns, which would include investing in infrastructure and better apprenticeships, etc. We mustn't be allowed to carry on as we have been doing, so we have to stop relying on property as a way of making money and we need to make sure people are paying their fair share of taxes - even if that means some of them leave the country.

I think Labour's idea for being out of the EU politically, but still to have trading agreements is bonkers. What that means in reality is leaving, then renegotiating from a position of weakness.

No, you're not going to be battered with LD rhetoric, I promise.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I'm trying to be pragmatic. I'd like to see a Labour government in some kind of agreement with the LDs, Plaid, the SNP and the Greens. It would take a very good and professional politician to hold it all together, but I believe it's not impossible.

I agree with you that Corbyn has an unfair press, but there's not much I can do about it. Nevertheless, I'm afraid I don't agree with quite a lot that he says - and certainly not on the EU - but I would accept him as the better option. Unfortunately, the majority of people wouldn't and I really do believe he's a liability.

My, my are we going to be battered with Liberal rhetoric now growstuff. First it's the Tory Brexiteers, and while I may not agree I do understand what they want. Then it's the Liberals and while I may not agree I do understand what they want. Along side both is Labour and while I may not agree I do understand what they want.

If you don't I am both surprised and sorry for you. It seems a bit late to try and start sorting the out after three years, three months, whatever.

I don't think you are the only one to say it growstuff. It's a bit more of the propaganda we hear day after day. It's also a bit more of the limiting our language in order to limit discussion and thinking. It goes along with Brexit means Brexit and The Will of the People. It irritates me a little as you might have guessed. One side throws a non-phrase and the other throw one back. Just as you do kindly explained how the Liberals are boxed in it is true of each of the parties. The only party who could have done anything are the Tories as the were the government.

I think Swinson has said she doesn't want to work with the current Labour leadership. I thought that's what you were complaining about.

There are two reasons: firstly, as I said, former Conservative voters won't vote LD is they think they're going to make Corbyn PM; secondly, the current Conservative "rebels" wouldn't serve under Corbyn, although they would serve under a more centrist Labour MP.

I've worked quite closely with my local LD party and have spoken to hundreds of people. This is a rock solid Conservative seat and I don't really expect that to change. However, of the people I've spoken to directly, a number are interested in the LDs (and some have joined). I don't think any of them have ever had a good word to say for Corbyn. That's what anybody wanting to get rid of the Tories is up against.

I must be blind because I don't get what the Labour Party says it's trying to do either.

But Labour isn't likely to win an election (not with an absolute majority anyway), so won't get a chance to hold a referendum.

GracesGran I don't know whether the LibDems thinks Corbyn has dithered. It's me who thinks he has - maybe just my perception.

The media are. as always, keen to write off the Liberal Democrats, but we should remember that in the last national poll, for the EU parliament this year, the number of LibDem MEPs elected was more than the total number of Labour and Tory MEPs put together.

Oh I do understand why the Liberals can't back Labour although I can't understand why they think Corbyn has dithered - that just sounds like lazy politic to me. Again, agree or disagree, he has been totally consistent. The LP recognise that basically half the country voted leave and half voted remain. He has said they would negotiate to leave the political EU while basically staying in the trading arrangements in order protect jobs and livelihoods. Having done that a LP government will put the agreed "leave" or remain to the country. What could be simpler and it hasn't changed over the years.

What Corbyn and each of the other parties have is a problem getting the necessary agreement. Tories with their "leave with nothing", Liberals with their "never leave" are each only talking to half the country, half or less of Parliament and not at all to the EU. Perhaps their leaders are so inline to simplify down to yes or no that the don't see that this could split the country. If they are that blind they probably don't get what the LP is trying to do.

Not giving support is very different to trying to dictate the leadership of another party. If she doesn't want to work with the current Labour Party she should say so. I wonder if the opportunity is drifting away now anyway.

What she's trying to do is win as many seats as possible. The LDs have done their homework and know that most of the seats they could potentially win are LD/Conservative marginals, especially those with a strong Remain vote.

The LDs were stung very badly by the coalition with the Conservatives and they're almost pathologically averse to committing to going into another coalition. Realistically, however, they're never going to be the largest party.

Swinson can't give any public support for Corbyn, if she wants to woo current Conservative voters. Not only that, but she knows that a number of the current Conservative rebels wouldn't support Corbyn as an interim leader either.

The LDs have been totally upfront about their attitude to Brexit. If Corbyn hadn't dithered so much, the LDs might not have seen such a surge in support, but I know for a fact that some of the new LD members are former Labour voters.

Swinson thinks "she can throw her weight around" because she's the leader of a party (also elected by its members), which has a good chance of holding the balance of power in a new government and wants to revoke Article 50. If people don't like that, they can vote for somebody else.

It could very well be LD votes which win Labour a GE. Swinson knows that, as do those opposing Labour, which is why she has no option but to deny in public that she supports Corbyn.

I believe that in Australia their Liberals are the equivalent to our Conservatives. Now that the Tories have become the Brexit Party I think our Liberals are taking much the same space here as they do there. I don't know why JS thinks she can throw her weight about in this way though. They need to run their own party not those where the leadership - whatever we think of it - is chosen by their own members.

Urmstongran You must be aware that creating websites about current stories is exactly how propagandists work these days. They don't rely on printed media for disseminating stories. There are ways of ensuring that web pages come up first in Google searches, so that if somebody puts a topic such as "Swinson husband" into a search engine, people can control what appears. The nature of the internet means that some of those stories aren't true. That's how anybody with a "story" manages to get it into the mainstream. Always check the source and go back to original, reliable documentation if possible.

No apology for repeating a scurrilous and untrue story, Ug?

If Boris and Leo Varadkar have the basis of a deal, the Lib Dem’s are going to have to change their manifesto!

Grany Swinson would be mad to get behind Corbyn. Most of the LD target seats in the next election are Conservative/LD marginals. The LDs need to woo disaffected Tory voters, which they would find it very difficult to do, if people thought that a vote for the LDs would be a vote for Corbyn.

Ironically, the best chance Labour has of forming the next government is hoping that the LDs take as many seats as possible off the Conservatives, which just might mean that Labour has the most seats. Labour supporters who smear Swinson and the LDs are shooting themselves in the foot.

TRANSPARENCY INTERNATIONAL

One global movement sharing one vision: a world in which government, business, civil society and the daily lives of people are free of corruption.

In 1993, a few individuals decided to take a stance against corruption and created Transparency International. Now present in more than 100 countries, the movement works relentlessly to stir the world’s collective conscience and bring about change. Much remains to be done to stop corruption, but much has also been achieved, including:

the creation of international anti-corruption conventions
the prosecution of corrupt leaders and seizures of their illicitly gained riches

national elections won and lost on tackling corruption
companies held accountable for their behaviour both at home and abroad.

GLOBAL REACH, LOCAL KNOWLEDGE

With more than 100 national chapters worldwide and an international secretariat in Berlin, we work with partners in government, business and civil society to put effective measures in place to tackle corruption.

INDEPENDENT AND ACCOUNTABLE

We are politically non-partisan and place great importance on our independence. We alone determine our programmes and activities – no donor has any input into Transparency International’s policies. Our sources of funding are made transparent as is our spending.

www.transparency.org/whoweare/organisation

Transparency International UK is just one of more than 100 chapters of Transparency Internaional and is a registered charity . Transparency International is unpopular with those who have something to hide.

Then you tell me ‘not to bother Ug’ because it’s rubbish!

I thought you had something rather more authoritative, Ug and anyway, to save you the bother because I'd already read that one.

For your information, then.

Transparency International is an international organisation with 'chapters' in many countries. It is not Jo Swinson's husband's 'family firm' (as all the Brexiter articles claim; I found loads of them, all inaccurate). Duncan Hames is aa member of the Senior Management Team; Director of Policy. There is a CEO at a higher level.

TI is a registered charity. It was founded in 1993. Long before Hames joined the organisation.

If you care to read the accounts (link below) you will find that its donor list is extensive and comprises a number of trusts and organisations.

TI received nothing from the EU in 2018/19. No doubt you can search its other accounts going back 6 years (listed on their website: www.transparency.org.uk/who-we-are/governance/annual-reports-accounts/ ) and find some EU funding among all the rest of the funders.

www.transparency.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Transparency-International-UK-Trustees-Report-and-Financial-Statements-ye-31-March-2019.pdf

The assertions flying around are absolutely ridiculous. It's always good to check the truth of them before you repeat them.

I don’t suppose it makes it ‘untrue’ either varian

If it wasn’t true, the Swinson’s I’m sure have enough money to lawyer up and challenge these allegations.

Actually I don’t read these scurrilous anti-Brexit rags as you suppose. All I did was Google ‘Jo Swinson’s husband’ and loads of articles came up! I just picked one at random. If you don’t believe me you do it!

The reason we dismiss your scurrilous false allegations as fake news Ug is because they have come from a pro-brexit fake news propaganda website. Sadly there is far too much of that rubbish slushing around in the sewers of the web. Repeating this trash does not make it true.

More than 6 million people signed an open letter (ie petition to parliament) earlier this year, asking for Article 50 to be REVOKED.

When your petitions reaches 17+ million varian it will mean something!