Liberal Democrats

Liberal Democrat policy clearly explained bu Chuka Umunna.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP267QvtqlE

The Liberal Democrats have pledged to cancel Brexit if they come to power at the next general election. Members voted for the new policy at their party conference in Bournemouth after it was moved by their former leader, Sir Vince Cable.

Previously, the party has backed another referendum or "People's Vote", saying they would campaign to Remain. The leader, Jo Swinson, said the manifesto pledge made the LibDems the "stop Brexit party".

In his first speech at conference as a Lib Dem MP, Chuka Umunna - who left Labour over its Brexit stance - said it would give the party a "clear unequivocal position". He said: "For three years Liberal Democrats have led the fight to stop Brexit. Our position is not only right, but has helped secure us incredible election results. This [policy] will stop this national embarrassment and enable us to focus on the things that really matter."

The motion, which was passed by an overwhelming majority, said that if the party became the government at the next general election, it would revoke Article 50 - the law that ensures the UK leaves the EU.

Earlier, Ms Swinson told the BBC's Andrew Marr show: "If people put [the Lib Dems] into government... the stop Brexit party, then stopping Brexit is exactly what people will get. Everybody can see we are stuck, that Brexit is in a mess. There needs to be a way out of that."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49706643

Of course they are! But MP's changing their stripes need to go back to their constituents to make sure the people they represent are happy with their change of heart!

twitter.com/RemainerNow/status/1173159577707323392?s=09

People are entitled to change their minds as they learn more and as circumstances change.

twitter.com/RemainerNow/status/117
3159577707323392?s=09

Politicians who defect to another party should automatically trigger a bye election, to allow their constituents to voice their approval or otherwise of finding themselves with an MP supporting a party they didn't vote for! But in these days of ambition and duplicity, doing the decent thing is never very likely to happen unless MP's are made to by law!

In the last few weeks the Liberal Democrats have won a by-election gaining Jane Dodd's as MP for Brecon and Radnor and seen no less than six existing MPs join from other parties.

Chukka Umunna, Luciana Berger and Angela Smith were former Labour MPs and Sarah Woolaston, Philip Lee and Sam Giymah were former Conservatives.

In normal times the party winning a byelection or gaining an MP from another party would have been sensational news, but now we can hardly remember normal times in politics.

One thing we can be sure of that compared with the chaos and confusion in the Tory and Labour parties, the LibDems are a haven of sanity and are going from,strength to strength.

Boris Johnson has suffered a fresh blow as the former Tory universities minister Sam Gyimah dramatically defected to the Liberal Democrats, accusing the prime minister of “veering towards populism and English nationalism”.

In a major coup for the Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson at the start of her party’s annual conference, Gyimah said he had left the Conservatives to fight against the government’s “scorched earth approach” to delivering Brexit regardless of the cost to the country.

The Observor reports today.

PS. Phillip Lee is being smeared as homophobic on Twitter and other social media. Maybe he is (I honestly don't know), but his voting record doesn't show that he is.

Ggggrrrr… I hate social media "smearing" on scant evidence.

Off to bed!

Thanks for the info suzie. I couldn't remember.

In any case, it's not true to accuse him of voting against gay rights because he didn't. As I've tried to explain, I do accept his point that the state shouldn't dictate what the church does. He wasn't against gay marriage, just gay marriage in church.

I'm actually more concerned about his record on welfare and benefits. In fact my doubts about the LibDems are more to do with their historic record on welfare.

I'm hanging on as a member because I don't see any alternative for me, but I'm not blind to the direction the party is taking. The LibDems also have a good track at local level and round here are a real alternative to the Conservatives.

jo swinson voted against plans to block fracking in 2015 then personally accepted £14,000 in donations from fracking firms across 2017-2018

The vote for same sex marriage wasn’t whipped - it was PLs choice to deliberately abstain. I wouldn’t use the term homophobe - I’d say he didn’t support equal rights for gay people

From "They Work For You":

Lee has never voted on gay rights or same sex marriage. He was always absent, possibly because he was still a Conservative and wasn't then prepared to go against the party whip. I'm puzzled why he's being smeared as homophobic.

I'm a bit confused here. Has Lee voted against allowing people to have same sex marriages, to divorce or have an abortion?

Who doesn't believe in same sex marriage/divorce/abortion?

PS. Careful! I had a post deleted for accusing a certain political political party of being bigoted becaue they are against same sex marriage/divorce/abortion!!

suzie I'm a bit tired and I'd have to look it up, but I think Lee was arguing exactly the same point you're making ie. that churches shouldn't be forced to perform gay marriages.

I don't feel that I have any right whatsoever to tell any church how it should act. It would be different if the church wanted to do something which was harmful or even illegal, because there would then be a real clash between church and state, but nobody has to get married in church. The churches aren't stopping anybody from getting married in a registry office or wherever they want.

PS. I can't remember exactly what Lee objected to. Gay people can get married, just not in some churches.

So you can be socially liberal and at the same time respect the views of those who don’t believe in same sex marriage/abortion/divorce as long as those people don’t stop others from having the choice. That’s whats wrong.

What would be wrong imo would be to say that all churches had to carry out same sex marriages - but that isn’t the case so I really don’t see your problem grow. Being socially liberal is about allowing people choice, not telling them they can’t get married/divorced/ have an abortion/ have a same sex relationship and so on.

If you believe in equal rights for gay people, then clearly that must mean they can get married not just have a civil partnership which was a lesser option. No religion is forced to carry out a marriage ceremony but some churches/ denominations are now offering this because we legislated for same sex marriage

Is it? I'm socially more liberal than most, which is why I also respect the views and beliefs of those in the established churches. I don't think Lee voted against same sex civil partnerships.

Whether or not it's homophobic it is certainly socially conservative rather than socially liberal. I see the Liberals as a socially liberal not socially conservative even if they still appear to be fiscally conservative so you wonder if it's a good fit.

I'm watching and waiting paddyann. I'm a LibDem member, but very much on the left-wing of the party and I confess that I'm not 100% happy.

PS. I understand that churches can perform gay marriages if they want to, but the Catholic and CofE churches oppose it.

I can't remember the exact details, but I do remember feeling somewhat ambivalent myself.

I'm an atheist, so I couldn't really care less what the churches allow. I also believe very strongly in LGBT rights, so I believe very much that same-sex marriages and relationships should be considered equal.

Nevertheless, I also respect people who believe in a religion and I feel their beliefs on gay marriage should be respected. Nobody is actually forcing anybody to believe in any particular God, so I'm a bit confused about why people should be so keen to marry in a church of a religion they don't 100% follow. It seems more that it's an issue for believers to sort out with their own church.

Does that make sense? I must admit I have very mixed feelings about gay marriage in church and I'm not convinced that the state should intervene. However, I don't think that makes me homophobic.