The French - is it personal?

I think a lot of it is routed in history, William the Conqueror came over and laid claim to England, Frenchified us quite a bit, sure even then their French was easier on the ear than Anglo Saxon. The Plantagenets stayed pretty French for quite a while, for example, I believe Richard I didn't speak English. With subsequent marriages to French women, Henry 11 to Eleanor of Aquitaine, we acquired large portions of France.......and then at some point in time the French wanted their bits back, by which time I imagine the Plantagenets had become more English than French .........or something like that. Anyway we always seemed to be at war with them for one thing or another. Nevertheless, England was a refuge for many French fleeing successive blood baths over the water, Huguenots, refugees from the French Revolution etc. even old mouthy General "non" de Gaulle parked himself here during the war. It's a love hate relationship I perceive. I love lots of them, have extended family over in France, I even married one......ex husband!.........he was prone to tell me I had English ankles.......known today as cankles I believe. I did like to correct him on that point "the ankles" I would tell him frequently "are only half English, so go and ooh la la that"

Anyway to quote Julie Burchill, the French think the English can't knock up a good sauce, apart from custard, or creme Anglaise, but as she rightly points out they haven't produced any good singers. Every time I went to France I'd pick up a Paris Match and there he'd be the late Johnny Hallyday........yeah! sad!

I think it's the British that have a chip on their shoulder about the French. All those centuries of hostility and war have left their mark.

maw have you never read what Johnson has written/said about the French?

I would not welcome him to my house under any circumstances if he had been as rude to me.

The tight wing press in this country, the tabloids especially, have a lot to answer for. The 'pompous little French person' quoted above is well matched by the pompous, idiotic, changes his mind a minute, buffoon who is the present PM.

The way the news is being manipulated is shocking. The backstop is, and never has been, the main reason for Parliament blocking the withdrawal bill. Read an intelligent newspaper or here's a link from a report on Twitter for those who want to read more:

Brexiter Tories tell Boris Johnson backstop is not only problem with withdrawal agreement
Boris Johnson is back in the UK after his trips to Berlin and Paris. Despite the attempts of some in the media to suggest that he has achieved some sort of breakthrough (take a look at the Daily Express splash here - and then compare it with the Guardian’s take here, which of course is much more reliable), a solution to the Brexit crisis seems no closer than ever. And, as the Daily Telegraph (paywall) is reporting this morning, even if Johnson were to find an alternative to the backstop acceptable to the EU, Tory Brexiters are telling him that that would not be enough to persuade them to vote for the withdrawal agreement because there are other aspects of it that they want to change.

David Davis, the former Brexit secretary, told the Telegraph’s Brexit podcast that he had a whole shopping list of desired changes. He said:

I’d argue for contingency on the money. I’d argue for tighter limits, timetable limits, sunset clauses on ECJ and things like that. I’d have a small shopping list.

It wouldn’t be a ridiculous one, but one I think that any serious European Parliament and any European Council that wants a deal could go with.

If I were doing this for Boris, I would be insistent on is that they make the bill - the £39bn, the second half of it - contingent on progress on the future economic partnership.

And Sir Bill Cash told the paper:

You can’t restore self-government as a cut and paste operation and I am sure they understand that - taking parts of the withdrawal agreement.

We will be governed for a number of years by the other 27 member states under the existing draft withdrawal agreement ... even with the backstop removed.

None of these concerns are new. But it is worth flagging them up as a reminder that the backstop is not the only factor that makes the withdrawal agreement unacceptable to many Brexiter Tories.

Why are we still referring to the war and de Gaulle in relation to the French and Brexit?
I hated de Gaulle and his attitude to the UK but unlike the OP I draw no conclusions about France and the French people because of him. Things have moved on....!!!
As for "a pompous little French person", at least Macron is a person to be taken seriously.Sure he has made mistakes because of his lack of political experience and so do other inexperienced politicians.
Macron made a good point asking whether the UK really wants to become a junior partner to the US. I don't want us to become the 51st state. So much for "taking back control"!

As someone wittier that I once said: The problem with the French is they believe they are the greatest nation in the world - whereas we British know we are!

Honestly ,I have rearely read such rubbish...boo hoo France HATES the English ...no...just like Scotland they 're not keen on the leadership and the road they 're taking.WM and many people in England think everyone should kow tow to them.."Britain" or the "UK" is just ONE of 28 nations in the EU and its their job to keep EVERYONE happy .Maybe its time to understand that "great"Britain isn't the world power it imagines it still is .The world is laughing at it and the rest of the EU couldn't care less what it does.
There was a ridiculous man on radio yesterday ,he thought "we should stop buying German cars and that will show them we mean business" what planet is he on? German car manufacturers have already said that just £10 on every other car thats sold worldwide will make up the difference if NO cars are brought across the channel .I'd guess all other industries are similar ..loads of other people .500 000 000 to buy their goods.

bustertank * Britain has always been the one giving and the rest of the world taking*
don’t make me laugh please, we have decimated the world of its riches eherever we have colonised We were the takers
The French and Brits have always had a love/hate relationship
Angle Merkle always seems a fair woman to me I believe Macron is not very well liked in his own country Why should he speak English in his land ???

I felt Angela Merkel's offer was clever - any chance Boris can do that in 30 days? - but he can't blame the EU for not giving ground...

Listening to the comments made by Brits, including Politicians, it’s us who don’t seem to like them. I find it shameful that our nation has so much subterranean, and more open, xenophobia within it. It’s illustrated here by the comment “I think the French have a chip on their shoulder”.

Just to add my tuppence worth . Love France , holiday there most years and find the people very tolerant of my attempts to communicate.
One thing that has always struck me is that as Scots , with a Scottish bumper sticker and strong accents , we seem to get a warmer welcome than English visitors——the “Auld Alliance “ still influences them perhaps ?

Oh my, some of these comments make me ashamed to be British. So many simplistic generalisations and (FGS) references to the war!!! Our PM is an embarrassment, our government reflects a fractured and often disengaged but opinionated populace. What a mess! I hope we can stomach
the future of chlorinated chicken and American venture capitalists encroaching on the NHS. Our young people are likely to request a closer alliance to the EU, to have allies to shelter us from the storms that political instability, climate change, migration, and shortage will bring. Then there will be a request to rejoin and we won’t have the favourable terms that we have now. Oh deary dear...

Parisians are well known, even in their own country for being haughty!

Urmstomgran your point being? Yes, it can be hard to find civility in some big cities.

The real problem with the issue is not any of our European partners, it is with us the Brits.

We have a long history of making agreements, alliances and treaties but at a whim we break them with no thoughts for the consequences. This is another case of us refusing to honour our undertaking made when we joined the EEC.

It is often said back then the country only voted to join a trading system not a political entity. That is just not true.

I was part of the NO campaign and I can tell you that our campaign was based upon the fact that the EEC was the first stage of a political system whose objective was the political unification of Europe. That view was accepted by its member nations and we, as the NO campaign based much of our materials, public meetings and public expressions on it.

The NO campaign's view was defeated by a 2 to 1 majority. I was very disappointed but took the view that we needed to join with enthusiasm however a group that included the likes of Cash, Howard, Benn and Corbyn, the Empire Loyalists and Communists, an alliance from hell, swore to destroy our membership; no talk then of democratic rights.

So we get to today when the least trustworthy of our politicians are followed blindly by a nation less and less convinced the path that they are walking down...... ...and yes we break our word again; another treaty torn up. Britain is determined to be a nation without honour. I am ashamed.

found this on FB

Brits.

They live in an Empire
That the world long forgot
And cling to their memories
That's all they've got
They dream domination
An illusion they'll keep
But they can't take the truth
And won't wake from their sleep.
They still rule a world
That was lost long ago
But these relics still revel
And cannot let go.

A thought-provoking post, absthame. Thank you for admitting that you were originally against joining the Common Market, but you obviously don't accept the mindless xenophobia we're now witnessing.

You didn't say how you voted in the referendum, but is doesn't matter. I'm sure you had well thought out reasons and I respect them.

Well after reading some of the posts on here I am ashamed to be a Brit. Why shouldn't Macron speak french in his own country, the war being dragged up yet again and the past history, we give more than anyone else and so on.

I for one think that Boris was being being Boris an just put his foot on the table for a second but I don't want my PM behaving like this. I would like him to be dignified not boorish.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Merkel's "offer" to Johnson was in response to his letter to Tusk about the Irish backstop, in which he implied that he could come up with a better solution. Merkel was asking him to explain himself and do what he said he could do.

If Johnson thought it was unrealistic, he could have just said so and told Merkel to take a running jump. However, he didn't. In his bumbling, gung-ho fashion, he took up the challenge. Surely that should put into question all the other "promises" he's made.

"Boorish Boris" - that's good Barmeyoldbat. .
Another point, of more recent history. The french are fed up with the situation at Calais and other ports because they think UK is shirking their responsibilities with the would-be immigrants. Most of whom don't speak french, just want to cross the channel. G-d help us.

I think it starts at school with complaints about who is encroaching onto your side of the desk...

It's about time it stopped at school, where it belongs. We're meant to be a 'mature democracy', one of the longest established and supposedly admired worldwide.. We're not behaving like one.

I too, very much appreciated your post, absthame

Are Germany and Franve the EU, or are there other countries involved?

- or even France -

Johnson chose to visit Germany and France.