The French - is it personal?

Been busy and find this thread - wow. What an incredible load of tripe and prejudice won't even begin to respond or take part.

But you just did jura!

Which element(s)do you regard as tripe and prejudice. jura ?

I thought the so called joke from something70 was unnecessary.

I don't understand why someone thought Macron should not speak in French in his own country ?
It seems that the long standing ill will between France and UK is still alive and well.

Why do you think that sodapop?

It's not ill will to expect another party to stick what it agreed to in the past or to seek to defend the interests if Ireland, which will remain in the EU.

Jani31 are you old enough to remember much about the period before we joined the Common Market? We were known as the sick man of Europe. We joined the original 6 members of the CM for the benefits to trade that could be gained as our economy was not in a good state and unemployment was high.

We are now in a period of stagnant productivity and have been since 2008. Our output per hour is lower than that of Germany, France, the US, Denmark, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Canada, Sweden, Austria and Australia (plus some others) It seems to me that we are once again the Sick Man of Europe.

Maw
Is that pride and prejudice or tripe and onions?

President Macron has possibly a great deal more to worry him at home in France than Frau Merkel has in Germany, which may explain the difference you have noticed.

I suspect Macron may simply dislike Johnson for which, I personally cannot blame him, and not be a good enough diplomat to hide it.

Quite frankly a prime minister should speak sufficient French to talk to a French colleague - politics are after all international and why on earth should we expect everyone to speak English?

Agreed grandtante.. Good post.

Rather disingenuous there Dinahmo!!

It depends on what criteria you are using of course.

grandtante it depends on which news medium you prefer to watch or read, of course, as to whether or not they bareley tolerate each other or are the best of pals.

Or, of course, two prime ministers ready to do business.

Barely

Apologies to Monsieur President!!

Not defending either side growstuff but the problem is in the here and now not with historical misdemeanours. Some posters can't move on.

Dinahmo: It seems to me that we are once again the Sick Man of Europe.

But we are often reminded that we are the 5th largest economy in the world. I'm never sure if we are to congratulate ourselves or pity ourselves. You would think that with such an impressive ranking we would be a very prosperous country – and that our democracy (so often referred to these days) would ensure that we all benefit from this prosperity.

I disagree with some posters' statement that Macron should have spoken English. Why on earth should he? If anybody should have made an effort it should have been Boris Johnson. After all, he is the one with the begging bowl. But I think it has been discovered that his 'fluent' French is more of a trickle.

Lemongrove Macron's command of English is much better than that of most English people. This was demonstrated in interview and speeches made shortly after he was elected president.

I find your comment about the French feeling humiliated after the wars offensive.

Not since the 12th century when David 1 of Scotland occupied parts of northern England for about 20 years have we suffered forces from a foreign country on our land for any length of time. Throughout our history there have been various attempts, the last being in 1797 when a French Revolutionary force occupied Fishguard for 3 days.

Thus, we do not know what it would be like to be under a foreign occupation, unlike the French. I have an elderly neighbour who talks about catching the train from Paris when she was a child, to go with her mother out to the countryside so that they either buy food or glean vegetables from the fields.

I think that the French are more ashamed about events, rather than humiliated. I recently read Paris Echo by Sebastian Faulks in which one of the characters, an American historian talks about the lack of post war history books, the first one being written in the late 70s. I live in an area that was under German occupation and there are memorials everywhere. The road taken by the Panzer division that destroyed Oradour sur Glane is only a few kilometres away from me. There are still hints of division between families who collaborated and those who didn't, some of whom had members of the Resistance.

It's only in the last few years that we've seen German cars here amongst the holidaymakers. The enlightened French have been changing some of the plaques detailing atrocities from changing the word German to Nazis.

I have never posted before, usually I prefer to simply enjoy the banter. Today, however, I must say that I am aghast at the sweeping statements of some ill-informed and bigoted Gransnetters, who are truly entrenched in arrogant and misguided assumptions that the UK is the envy of all. I am embarrassed to be English when I am abroad.

Boris lived in Belgium for several years from the age of 9, and returned there as a journalist. He must have more than a “trickle” of French.

Well said Mazamet07 and well done for posting. I am sure there are many who read our threads on Gransnet but don't contribute.

What you have said rings so true. It is now excrutiatingly embarassing to be Brritish.

The other EU 27 nations have behaved so well, confirming their belief in the benefits of the European Union, showing solidarity, supporting Ireland and puting up with three years of utter nonsense from the UK, culminating in having to deal with a lying buffoon who has somehow become the PM of the UK.

I have never been to France, but have found in Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Ireland and Canada that the welcome is much warmer when people realise that I am Scottish rather than English. I don't know why this is so, I can only say that this has been my experience and that of my Scottish friends.

Maggiemaybe, as you know one can live in a foreign country for many years without learning to speak the language.

Boris Johnson's French has been described as 'pitiful'.

Have a look and listen.

www.shortlist.com/news/boris-johnson-french-mansplain-foreign-office-bbc

I'm sure that if Boris Johnson really is fluent in French it would have seem natural to him to speak French at the meeting with Macron, particularly since this meeting took place in France. He would certainly have made a much stronger impression had he done so.

The PM doesn’t need to speak in French whilst in France, nor speak German when in Germany, Hungarian when in Hungary etc etc.Does the POTUS ( any of them) speak so many languages that they can fluently speak with their opposite number, the short answer is no.That’s what translators are for.
It amazes me when posters say ( rather proudly) that they are ashamed to be British, the French are never ashamed to be French ( perish the thought!) and neither are most people in most countries.It seems a very British hangdog sort of thing to say.No country in the world handles things perfectly in all
areas.

I believe you Grany23 and any other Scottish posters who have had the same experience......it’s the English that some French don’t like.So exactly why anyone tries to deny that fact is baffling.

Well, I hope you're not talking about the ordinary French people because I'm on holiday in France at the moment and they couldn't be friendlier. They are lovely!

Having lived in France for 16 years, my view is that they are are a pragmatic nation. This is secondary to a great national pride.
Just listen to their national anthem.
They have suffered invasions, occupations and wars for centuries. After WW2 they decided that it's better to try to get on with their neighbours. So th EU came about. I think Churchill had something to do with it too.Also a brilliant french lady Simone Veil.
Although I would like to remain part of Europe, I feel we have our own very different history. Which Macron and Merkel instinctively recognise.