Brexit Party/Tory alliance?

I’m with you Lemongrove. ?

I have to admit that I kind of warm to the idea of an EU defence capability, especially with the current US president. I'm not sure why we should be dependent on the US, which often has quite different priorities from Europe, rather than a defensive union of more like minded neighbouring countries.

Though Eastern European member states with Putin's Russia on their doorstep probably have a rather different take on the question than the UK does on its little island well away from Russia.

As I understand it we were already were planning to integrate further with other EU forces. And I seem to remember the aircraft carrier we built for which we had no planes.. Didn't France lend us some?

Thank you, Maizie.

PS. Are you really so fond of Angela Merkel that you call her "Dear"? Most Germans know her as "Mutti" (Mum).

Do you have a part-time job as a fly on the wall in negotiations englishrose?

In truth, you have no idea what the proposals are for a European Army and whether the UK would just have to as it's told. This is your version of Project Fear!

This might be helpful, too:

In addition to the official text approved in December 2007, the Robert Schuman Foundation provides you with 10 explanatory sheets including the main innovations contained within the Treaty together with the ratification dates of each Member State. You will also find the Foundation's latest publications on issues raised by the Lisbon Treaty.

www.robert-schuman.eu/en/understanding-the-lisbon-treaty

This was published at the time of the Lisbon Treaty as an explanation of it.

This is about the Foundation:

www.robert-schuman.eu/en/

Well, ladies, the evidence is there, in front of you. Dear Mrs Merkle, and the Guardian....but don't take my word for it, do your own research. Oh and the problem, growstuff, will be if the EU, as a 'superstate' wishes to go to war, we will have to follow. There is much talk in the EU parliament about conscription for the EU young, which of course could easily include and involve your grandchildren.

My my. Heads in the sand. Don't be an Ostrich! Don't be so complacent. Find out the truth. As they say in the good old Xfiles, The Truth is Out There. And it's very easy to find.

I don't see a huge problem with more military co-operation either. Given that we don't often go to full-scale war, it seems to make sense to share our resources.

People are very fond of mentioning WW2, which the Allies wouldn't have won if each country had acted independently.

I'll put it on my reading list, but I'd still like to know what I'm supposed to be looking out for, according to englishrose.

Putin doesn't want to be kept in line, which is one of the reasons he has backed brexit.

With regard to the European Army.

It doesn’t exist.

But I can’t see the problem with a NATO type or organisation, particularly if it keeps Putin in line.

It is time that politicians spelled out to people who "just want to see Brexit done and dusted", that if brexit in any form is allowed to go ahead, then far from being the end of it all, that would only be the beginning and we would have to put up with the next ten years or more being blighted by talk of trade negotiations, treaties and as our lives worsened, recriminations and slanging matches about who to blame.

I do not think for a minute that is what most people would actually want if the consequences of brexit were properly explained.

growstuff you’d be much better off looking at the actual document rather than what englishrose has posted.

That is produced by Anthony Coughlan, an Irish Academic who strongly opposes the EU and who has links to the communist party, so comes from a traditional far left perspective over the EU.

You are much better reading the source document and making up your own mind.

foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/22/germany-is-quietly-building-a-european-army-under-its-command/

www.businessinsider.com/eu-countries-agree-mega-army-2017-11?r=US&IR=T

www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-emmanuel-macron-eu-army-to-complement-nato/

www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8935/european-army

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OL9FV7MHec

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

There you go., and from the Guardian no less !!! Lot's of links for you to read and there are many more but I think that may be enough for you to absorb in one sitting !

Hi grow stuff....\I'm here to educate you. Was it the Lisbon Treaty you were keen on learning about?

www.corbettreport.com/articles/20090821_lisbon_facts.htm

I have to agree with you WadesNan Everyone I speak to says they just want it sorted, many also tell me that think politicians, from all sides, would have voted against any deal - no matter how good because they don't want to leave the EU

If that is correct then please explain why the latest YouGov poll shows the Conservatives at 35%, Labour 21% and Lib Dems 19%

Most people just want to see Brexit done and dusted. Politicians have been so busy looking out for their own interests that they have blocked any chance of a good deal.

Andrew Rawnsley writes in The Observor-

Will the expulsion of so many Tory MPs push more swing voters over to the Lib Dems? Highly likely. Will the Conservatives’ electoral chances be diminished when the prime minister’s own brother so little trusts him that he has sacrificed his parliamentary career? History suggests that the Tories will suffer for that. Is the metastasis of the Tories into a version of the Brexit party going to cost them seats, especially in Scotland, London and the south? This is very probable too. But then these were always going to be consequences of his “do or die”, “whatever it takes”, “come what may”, “shit or bust” strategy. It is predicated on the assumption that his single most important task is to squeeze down the Brexit party – to “put Farage back in his box”, as he has said. Its overarching ambition is to recreate something resembling the coalition of voters that delivered the Leave outcome in the referendum in the hope that the British electoral system will translate that into a parliamentary majority for a hardcore Brexit.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/08/like-macbeth-johnson-too-steeped-in-blood-to-turn-back-what-next

growstuff
Oh Grandad! Joelsnan will be along very soon to call you a liar.

Please supply evidence where I have called anyone a liar or retract this statement.

Again, If you have to continually make personal jibes your comments are demeaned.

I'm sure EnglishRose will be along to educate me as to the bits I need to know.

growstuff tbh I think englishrose is your better bet, because I read it years ago, part of a work course.

I do know it covered the parliament, the council and the commission as well as the ECJ.

Oh Grandad! Joelsnan will be along very soon to call you a liar.

Ooooh! I do love WUMs on a Saturday night!

Any idea where the EU Army is stationed? I don't think any of the EU leaders have actually heard of it, which could be a bit of a problem if it needs to be mobilised.

Errrmmm! I actually remember the Lisbon Treaty. I can't have been the only one! It was hardly secret.

However, I confess I haven't read it in full. As you obviously have, I thought you could save me a bit of time and give me a quick resume. Any chance?