Are you scared

moggie57 Sun 15-Sep-19 22:19:54 Could you reply to growstuff's post of Sun 15-Sep-19 22:33:27.

I am getting sick and tired of people just saying whatever comes into their head whether it is true, a lie or a prejudice. This is far too important to trivialise in this way.

We are independent, this is a stupid Summit's argument. Australia has forgone some independence to sign a regional deal that includes China, Japan and many other nations they sacrificed further sovereignty to join CEATO. Virtually every nation also makes similar treaties, some of which cover military and security matters and may or may not cover trade issues. Others concentrate on trade issues.

All treaties means sacrificing some degree of sovereignty in exchange for the treaty benefits the EU gave the UK massive benefits in exchange for what, some monies and an ability of criminals to be pursued across Europe etc pooling of medical and science research etc and a pooling of our sovereignty with other members when taking important decisions. We gained much more than we sacrificed as any except the blind can see.

Sure we survived before we joined, as we slid down the ranks of increasing number of enriching nations. Industry was in a state of virtual collapse and the pound was far from a stable currency. Over the 40 years of our membership our nation finished up as the 5th richest nation and until that stupid referendum we had a stable currency.

What is sovereignty? Do you really know?

FC61 and Chaitriona Thank you. You have both explained the situation succinctly. Your points have been posted on various threads by other people many times before and yet there are still people who won't take any notice. I can't imagine what drives these people on.

Nanny41 A number of foreign online newspapers have English versions. You can find out for yourself what people in other countries think of us.

And how much do you think they would charge the NHS? Trump has already thought of that one and said that he wants to raise the price of American medicines for the NHS.

In any case, how sensible is it to fly medicines over 5000 miles, when we could get them on our doorstep? There will still be the problem of customs clearance and regulation of standards.

Both Switzerland and Australia are part of trading blocs.

If we don't need a withdrawal deal, what do you suggest happens in Ireland or with citizens' rights. Of course those issues need to be dealt with. We need a deal!

If there is no deal, the EU won't negotiate any trading agreements with us, especially if we don't pay our "divorce bill". We'll be stuck on WTO tariffs forever and be at the mercy of vulture economies, such as the US and China.

I can't think of any other major country which doesn't have some deal with its nearest neighbours, who have been up to now our biggest trading partners.

Yes, we most definitely do need a deal and we then need to negotiate tariffs, etc.

why would there be a shortage??? ,we could get medication from the usa.....

this isall scaremongering .if switzerland and australia can be independant ,why cant we.? we dont need a "deal" those of us who voted out .parliament should do just that .we didnt vote on a deal.

Just get on with it out with a deal or stay where we are. I wonder what the EU are thinking of us or rather thinking if Boris the mind boggles!

I voted to remain

Already there are difficulties obtaining some medications and I can't believe how some in power are behaving.
It is easy for them to defend a no deal scenario as one suspects they will have a huge financial cushion unlike most of the population

I voted Remain. I did so having voted to become a member of the Common Market in the 1970s and have considered myself a European since. I will always be a European. My family have taken full advantage of EU membership. My children took part in ERASMUS at universities they attended, studying politics (we are a very political family) and languages. My husband and I have lived in the EU previously for a number of years. We chose to buy a small apartment in Catalonia, and we spend a chunk of every year there. We researched remaining in the EU....we are health workers and knew how hard the NHS would be hit by leaving. I am incandescent with some of the misinformation out there. Idiot posts daily on facebook from Leavers claiming all sorts...'our boys will be signed up to the EU army with conscription' really? 'we will be a vassal state of the EU' funny...because we are one of 28 member countries and we all have a vote on every single law and policy that goes before the EU....in fact the handful of times we haven't agreed with a vote...its been one in favour of more rights for workers. I have had too many friends to count who have left the NHS because of being made unwelcome...or being actually abused by members of the public telling them that now we are Brexiting they have to leave and good riddance. I am horrified to live in a country with far too many nationalists and racists. When I am told to bugger off abroad if I want to live in the EU....I remind leavers....that I am living in an EU country and maybe if they don't like it, to move to a country outside the EU.

Again not holding my breath sadly growstuff . But I appreciate you reading my long windy opinion !
Great post Chaitriona !
Thank you Nandot!
We must keep banging on the door of uncommon common sense !

Really interesting post FC 61. Thank you.

Here’s a wonderful independent well researched map showing who suffers the most from no deal Brexit. The darker the orange the more the region suffers.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/07/world/europe/brexit-impact-on-european-union.html

Thank you Chaitriona for setting out the reasons that we need to STOP BREXIT.

The way to do that is to support the Liberal Democrats.

Globalisation has very much reduced the power of nation states and enhanced the power of international companies. I feel that the EU had the capacity to provide some sort of bulwark against this to protect the living and working conditions of people in Europe, for example the proposed legislation to force international companies operating in Europe to pay tax in Europe. Some of the promotors of Brexit such as the millionaire Rees Mogg have companies which pay no tax here and avoiding being forced to do so is a prime motive for leaving the EU because of this proposed legislation, We already have large government contracts here being awarded to international companies based in the US, to run prisons, parts of the NHS, the benefits agency and so on. This will progress apace. The profits are large and gained by the services and the conditions of workers within the services being squeezed. All of this is paid by the British taxpayer who are the ordinary people of this country while the profits of such companies are tax free. I am sure Brexit will bring about the end of the NHS and we will have health services provided by privatised American health insurance companies. This is a system which has left many Americans without health care at all. Trump’s slip while he was here is the truth. Any ordinary person voting for Brexit, especially older people with increasing health care and social care needs are turkeys voting for Christmas, I am afraid.

I don't get the point of the banana story, anyway. Tenerife is Spanish. Why can't they have bananas from Tenerife? I've never seen a banana stamped with 'EU', either*. Is this a charming Spanish custom?

*But then, our bananas come from South America or the Caribbean...

But this thread is certainly bringing out the factfree Brexit script in all its glory...

Good post FC 61

Prolific growstuff, I admire your stamina.....

What are you looking forward to Kapitan?

PPS. The EU doesn't need the UK anywhere near as much as the UK needs the EU.

PS. I've seen that story about a coach driver and bananas before. Do all the coach drivers in Tenerife talk about bananas?

Ellpammar I don't understand your claim that the UK will have to prop up Germany. How's that going to work? Please could you explain.

By the way, welcome to all the new posters to this part of the site! Where have you all been over the last three years?