MEPs vote on Brexit extension appeal

Urm My point was- what made the 37.5% suddenly decide that they should vote to leave when in the previous year only 5% of the population was unhappy? The date of the referendum was announced on 20 February so that left about 4 months for people to receive the document, read and research before voting.

Are you seriously suggesting that's what the population did? Somehow I doubt it.

Well I’m thinking hat just because extricating ourselves will be bluddy difficult (wonder why haha!) is no reason not to pursue it.

No, there was no reason not to pursue it, but there was no plan. There seemed, despite the advice of experts such as Ivan Rogers, to be no consideration of what the best plan would be or understanding of the fact that such long and close integration would take more than two years to disentangle. The best Leaver's plan that I know of visualised it taking about 10 years of gradual withdrawal and refocusing. There was no need to rush into it in the way that May did.

Unfortunately, the Leave campaigners gave the impression that it would be the easiest thing in the world to do. This inevitably raised public expectation of a quick break. Had the government taken the trouble to research it and to explain to the public the complex nature of the task then maybe we would be in a better place now. Still going for Leave, perhaps, but without the awful division and the frightening rise of right wing extremism.

That’s very true varian

Some who voted leave may have got their information from the pro-leave right-wing tabloids, who would not have explained that the referendum was only advisory. So they really did not know. They were misled by many lies and the status of the referendum was just one.

It was - I remember knowing that the outcome was advisory

I don’t remember the general public being told it was only advisory. I can see now that legally it was.

But Joe Public took the referendum seriously. Especially when Cameron said what he did about it (too boring to repeat).

Was advisory

Urm - it was well known that from a legal POV the referendum result was referendum Of course, from a political point of view it’s hard to ignore the outcome of referendums but I’m surprised you didn’t realise it was advisory

I read the Twitter link you posted MaizieD

I did not think any PM would be mad enough to make the A50 notification, to attempt to extract UK from 45 years of accumulated law and policy in less than two years

Well I’m thinking hat just because extricating ourselves will be bluddy difficult (wonder why haha!) is no reason not to pursue it.

Erm ... perhaps a referendum Dinahmo? One was called by the government, leaflets were posted, it was on the news, so I think people read up on it knowing their ‘once in a generation’ vote was being canvassed.

That said, no one told us it was advisory. Maybe they thought if they did tell us, turnout would be very low. I certainly wouldn’t have bothered voting ....

Barmeyoldbat
Do you have instances of hostile environment?
I cant say I am aware of any such instances and I know many who have opted to remain here after Brexit, not carers though. The only real hostility I hear of is towards those of a different faith and those (in general) are not from the EU.

Joelsnan, the terms and conditions they had were excellent, some staff have been with the agency for over 20 years and have become like family. A few who were leaving were doing so because of the hostile environment created here.

They did - and then they probably thought (like the rest of us) that they'd get to vote on the deal until they got the 'best' one.

If this was a response to Ug, SirChengin, they really, really didn't vote to trigger A50. They voted to allow the PM to trigger it as and when she thought fit. It was May's decision to actually trigger it when she did.

I've been reading what I thought was a good twitter thread on this very topic:

twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1175035945277698049

It's a shortish thread but I think some of the responses are worth reading, too.

David Allen Green is a lawyer.

Barmeyoldbat
It would be interesting to know the Terms and Conditions of employment the agency is offering.
In some of the countries that EU workers came from their standard of living has increased to such a point that it is more attractive for them to return home than work for a pittance here. As we have not left the EU yet I think you will find that this is a more likely reason.
We do need to reward carers adequately, provide permanency of employment rather than agency terms plus adequate recognised training and a career progression ladder and vacancies will be filled.

Well thank you all who voted leave. Because of staff shortage with the agency that care for my daughter they have just given a months notice. Most of the care was provided by EU's who have left and gone back home. The agency paid well, even provided taxis for those without cars.

So now my daughter could well be without care on October 13 and at risk. Maybe a leaver would like to take over her care.

I'm sure some are laughing at us, but I get a sense that more are looking on in sympathy and wondering how on earth the UK has found itself being run by such a crowd of imbeciles with so much power that they've been able to stymie democracy in this way.

I no longer think that Europe, or the rest of the world see us as a laughing stock anymore. (Apart from the buffoon that is). I think that they are watching us closely so that they can learn from us. Some Americans actually admire the actions of those MPs who want to ban no deal Brexit and the prorogation of Parliament and wish that a similar course of action could be followed in the Capitol building.

Urm Remain voters knew exactly what they voted for - the status quo.

In 2015 apparently only 5% of the population were unhappy with Europe and some of those will be Remainers who had some concerns. So, what happened to make 37.5% suddenly want to leave? Red buses, lies, fraudulent use of money by the various Leave campaigns? Somehow I don't think that 37.5% suddenly decided to read up on the subject.

Strange, maybe I missed this but I don't seem to have seen it reported anywhere but on here.

They did - and then they probably thought (like the rest of us) that they'd get to vote on the deal until they got the 'best' one. Boris and his troupe of clowns have now put a stop to that democratic process by playing childish games with everyone's futures and livelihoods.

No MaizieD my post wasn’t adversarial. I thought I was providing clarity. Maybe not!

I genuinely thought MP’s voted to trigger A50.
?

MEP's VOTED about an extension ...something MY MP and every other MP is being denied because BOJO is an eegit and has closed Parliament .Democracy ?

Have it your way, Ug. We'll just have to agree to differ in this instance.

Well BBC news 1st February 2017 reported:

‘*MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Prime Minister Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way.*
They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.
But the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled.
The bill now faces further scrutiny in the Commons and the House of Lords before it can become law.

The prime minister has set a deadline of 31 March for invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, getting official talks with the EU started. The bill returns to the Commons next week.’

I believe that it also stipulated in the letter that if they offer a different extension then Boris has two days to accept.