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Justin Trudeau

(109 Posts)
Rosina Thu 19-Sep-19 08:39:57

I have just read that Trudeau should resign because he wore some tan/black face makeup at an Arabian Nights fancy dress party around twenty years ago.

Anyone care to join me in repeatedly banging our heads against the wall?

GagaJo Sun 22-Sep-19 13:18:48

Trudeau will have known it was wrong then. Of course. It was only 20 years ago. The US civil rights movement preceded his actions by FORTY years. God knows why he does it. Is he a racist at heart?

We all have entrenched racist attitudes in one way, or another. I still make assumptions based on race despite having had a multi ethnic family for almost 40 years.

Pity he still hasn't sorted that out for himself, given the instance Davidhs mentions, in India recently.

Davidhs Sun 22-Sep-19 12:49:17

Trudeau has a long record of “dressing up”, not just at fancy dress parties, on a recent visit to India he chose to wear Indian dress and his hosts were not amused at all. At least he didn’t wear any dark make up on that occasion.

SirChenjin Sun 22-Sep-19 12:04:45

As in the links re Morris dancers blackface are not my words (for the avoidance of doubt)

SirChenjin Sun 22-Sep-19 12:03:46

You know they’re not actually my words and that they are explaining the historical context in a great deal of detail?

What nuances do you see to justify your earlier factual claim?

MaizieD Sun 22-Sep-19 12:02:04

I've read your links, SirChenjin.

I come to the conclusion that the issue is far more nuanced than you would have us believe.

SirChenjin Sun 22-Sep-19 11:58:58

something he didn't believe then was wrong

We knew why it was wrong then, it wasn’t a case of believing or not believing. I presume you know not to call your DGC any of the words that would have been used to describe a black person 50 years ago because you know it’s wrong and you understand the historical context? 20 years ago we knew it was wrong for the same reasons.

grapefruitpip Sun 22-Sep-19 11:54:26

Lots and lots of issues all mixed up here.

I cannot imagine any relative of mine attending a fancy dress party and blacking up. What a hideous phrase.

blondenana Sun 22-Sep-19 11:28:33

I think it's what people do now, and how they act now that counts, everyone makes mistakes, whoever they are even prime ministers, the past is past, people usually learn from their mistakes,
I don't think Trudeau should resign or apologise for something he didn't believe then was wrong,
I have a black grand child by the way

SirChenjin Sun 22-Sep-19 09:39:33

Blackfaces in Morris Dancing has another history nothing to do with race but to do with disguise, poverty and being "owned" by the landowners

There’s no definitive reason for Morris blackface and race may have had something to do with it. The link I posted upthread gives you the history of it.

maddyone Sun 22-Sep-19 09:32:22

Obviously white people can perceive racism. A hell of a lot of white people on here who can’t though.

Gagajo, do you know which people on here are white? If you do you’re extremely clever, because I don’t and no one else does. I don’t know if you’re white, black or brown. And you don’t know if I’m black, brown or white.

Eloethan Sun 22-Sep-19 00:53:42

quizqueen Most of the people on here who think it's a matter of little importance are not "lefties".

I expect I would be described as a "leftie" (though I think the more respectful way of referring to someone's political leanings is to describe them as "left wing" or "right wing") I certainly don't minimise Trudeau's behaviour. I didn't think it was a resigning issue - largely because it would undoubtedly make a martyr of him in some people's eyes. Having subsequently read that he "blacked up" on several occasions, I would hope that he has, in any event, lost the trust and support of many people. I imagine the corruption scandal has also severely dented his image - he's not the person he initially presented himself to be.

GagaJo Sat 21-Sep-19 23:34:58

Yes, Alf Garnett would be locked up! He was awful. Imagine the hurt he would cause in real life.

blondenana Sat 21-Sep-19 23:33:28

Personally i think it's ridiculous, it was years ago, and when we had the black/white minstrels who thought anything about it
It gets on my nerves all this racism calling and trans stuff
There is just too much PC going on,
You wont be able to breathe without prmission soon
Sorry it's late not read the full thread, so there might be a of different opinions or all been said before, but i don't see why he should resign
Just imagine if Alf Garnett was around now,he would be locked up shock

quizqueen Sat 21-Sep-19 23:31:20

Poor old (or should I say young) Trudeau!!! I daresay though if it had been Boris or Trump you'd all be singing a different tune, but Trudeau is a leftie so he must be forgiven.

GagaJo Sat 21-Sep-19 23:28:58

Urgh. Typo. The female characters in the 16th century would have been played by men.

GagaJo Sat 21-Sep-19 23:27:24

No, I'm not. Hence, if the cast is mixed ethnically, then the 'moor' doesn't need to be of colour. If white characters can be asian/african, black characters can be white. It's ACTING. It is possible to act oppression. Gay characters don't have to BE gay to act the part.

No, MaizieD, but then the female characters in the 16th century would have been played by women. We don't do that anymore either.

MaizieD Sat 21-Sep-19 23:19:37

I doubt if Othello was played by a person of colour when it was first stage, GagaJo. Shakespeare intended his character to be a 'Moor'. Wouldn't that have been integral to the play? Doesn't having it played by a 'white' white person take away part of its essence?

And you're surely not suggesting that actors should confine themselves to roles which reflect their own ethnicity? Only Russians can act Chekov, only Norwegians in Isben, only the
French can play Moliere?

I'm curious about this. It seems to me, as with all things, that 'intention' could be considered...

GagaJo Sat 21-Sep-19 23:11:05

Obviously white people can perceive racism. A hell of a lot of white people on here who can't though.

Yes, Fairydoll2030, a very racist bunch.

Fairydoll2030 Sat 21-Sep-19 23:08:10

Well, circa 1970, I was in an amateur dramatic society and we entered a drama competition. I played the part of an Indian doctor and had to have a black face and hands - does that make ME a racist? What a load of nonsense.

Incidentally, at the end of the competition ( in which we were runner up), one of the judges commented that I had obviously forgotten to put make up on my feet as they showed a whiter shade of pale below my sari! That caused a laugh and some applause from the audience....obviously a racist bunch!

pinkquartz Sat 21-Sep-19 23:04:36

Plenty of skeleton's perhaps in Corbyn's closet.
But irrelevant in this topic.

What about Prince Harry dressed up in an SS costume that really pissed me off.

pinkquartz Sat 21-Sep-19 23:02:28

A white person can perceive racism.
I am intelligent not ignorant, but to look back and make him resign now is ridiculous.
So people can't make a mistake and own it?
Once that mistake is done it's forever?
What a terrible world that will be.
And please it's not only white people that can be racist.....I know it exists in many different cultures.

Blackfaces in Morris Dancing has another history nothing to do with race but to do with disguise, poverty and being "owned" by the landowners.

GagaJo Sat 21-Sep-19 23:00:53

Depends on if the whole remaining cast is white (re: Othello). If the cast is all white, then Othello should be played by a person of colour.

If the cast is mixed, Othello could be any colour. No need for artificial enhancement.

MaizieD Sat 21-Sep-19 22:55:59

So, put me right.

If you go to a fancy dress party 'dressed' as someone from a different culture it's fine so long as you don't try to reproduce their skin colour? Or is the act of trying to dress like them also racist? (I seem to remember a big fuss about 'cultural appropriation' not so long ago).

And if a white actor 'blacks up' to play Othello, they're being racist? Or is it just offensive?

GagaJo Sat 21-Sep-19 22:53:46

I wonder if everyone on here claiming T's past should be ignored, would say the same, should Jeremy Corbyn have a nasty skeleton in his cupboard.

pinkquartz Sat 21-Sep-19 22:50:26

I should have also said that while I was young when the disgusting black and white minstrels was on TV I did not watch it.
I thought is was wrong even then, my parents were ahead of the curve and I knew it was offensive.