Think for yourself

Jane10 I have a similar issue with some GN posts, although I suspect the posts which get my back up are towards the opposite end of the belief spectrum. BTW I don't like virtual signalling for its own sake either.

PS. I'm not entirely convinced some people aren't wind up merchants, but it's difficult to tell.

'So, not much chance of becoming active in the Labour Party at this point in time. '

yes, this has become very obvious lol - well not the last part. Your definition of 'VS' is very different to mine.

I don't form my opinions based on forum post information. In fact I'm concerned at the effect of digital media on information transmission generally. People tend to pick up on headlines and soundbites and often don't research topics further.
Critical appraisal of sources should be a required subject at schools these days. It may well be studied by more academic pupils but it's likely that they aren't the ones likely to be swayed by an opinion read on Facebook or Twitter.
Re GN some opinions posted just make me want to form an opposite view as the posts are framed in such a virtual signalling way!

Growstuff

I dislike and distrust, for example, politicians who appear to change their fundamental beliefs to attract votes, on the other hand, I think a politician should be open to new ideas, and be ready to do a U turn if necessary.

I think I do have an open mind over most things, I have changed my mind on occasion, but I’m concerned that this may be down to the eloquence of the persuader, rather than what I truly feel, maybe I’m just fickle.

I think it's an interesting topic for discussion.

and if anything is about how set in their views many on this site are

Most people have views they adhere to. So what?
Many people are open to change or will listen to arguments and maybe accept there are other ways of looking at things. That's common too.
For others, some things are set in stone, and that's perfectly fine too.

Should it be any other way?

What suits one, does not suit another! Thankfully, freedom of thought and view hasn't yet been outlawed.

I don't think GN is any different and I am wondering what the point of the OP is?

I think I know what you mean Sara. We're not creatures of pure reason and it's sometimes difficult to untangle our motivation for holding certain beliefs or acting in a certain way.

I don't think it's weak to change ones mind. I have a bit of a problem with people who stick to a certain ideology through thick and thin, when faced with evidence which contradicts the beliefs.

Growstuff

Weakness may be the wrong word, I’ve always admired people, who are totally committed to a point of view, even if I’m completely opposed to it.

Sometimes, I’m not certain if I’ve changed my mind, or had it changed for me, or changed it not necessarily for the right reasons.

There are many things that I am not flexible on including my views on social justice, my views on morality /ethics, my basic religious beliefs, my views on racism in all its forms etc. I find myself lacking patience with those culpabley ignorant of issues that they express strong opinions on.

On the positive side, I made a career of change, changing work ideas, changing people's attitudes toward each other and their immediate environments etc. However my change of attitude towards the EU and its predecessors took place many years before Brexit, which I think is dishonorable action that is also aimed at further enriching those who have, damaging the weakest in society and will cause the final breakup of the UK.

My views are not set in stone, merely temporary and of this time. I can, and frequently do, change them. A woman at work regularly insulted those who disagreed with her. I saw this as being defensive and a sign of losing any argument. Resorting to insults is just childish.

She couldn't explain why she held her (extreme) opinions, just said 'Well, that's what I believe!' I turned out that her 'views' belonged to her husband!

Riverwalk
A neighbour of West-Indian heritage was really offended by a shop in Wales (Llandudno, I think) that sold nothing but golliwogs and similarly-themed stuff (framed pictires, cushions etc). The shop-owner (surprise, surprise) called her something racist under her breath (but audible enough) when she walked in, open-mouthed with incredulity. I hope that shop went bust, frankly.
I'm not going to change my views on racism. There is no cogent argument to defend it.

I've also changed my mind about compulsory voting. It was an Aussie who changed my mind about that (it's compulsory there) and that was quite a recent mind-change (in the last year). It does help if the mind changer is a pleasant person. If you think someone is a bit of a bully, they're unlikely to shift one's opinion.

I think I know what you're getting at Anja! For example re Justin Trudeau blacking-up, morris dancers etc ..... the same old is trotted out time and time again.

I have a much-loved golliwog - I'm not racist
I loved the black and white minstrels - everyone's so PC these day

Wouldn't it be a good idea sometimes for us to re-visit our previous beliefs and see things in a new light, and think well yes it might be insulting to others if you blacken your face into a racial caricature, and a shop selling golliwogs belongs in the past.

Unfortunately, I think the events of the past three years have entrenched our attitudes - older people in particular are guilty of this.

I'd say a strong resistance even to having anyone suggest that it is OK to change your mind shows a rigidity of thought.

Every little bit of evidence that comes our way should be feeding into our minds and possibly changing our perception of a problem or a situation - and the source of that evidence and the reputation of the supplier of it should influence how much weight to give it. Rejecting genuine evidence in favour of a preconceived "right" answer can lead to flawed decisions.

That can be personal (believing that "It is because he loves me so much" when a partner is violent over an imagined infidelity) or political (believing that all __s are __s. Fill in gaps as applicable) or superstitious ("If I walk under a ladder, I will have bad luck")

Your third paragraph I’ve found to be particularly true Hetty58 - people surround themselves with those who agree with them and distance themselves from t’others.

They don’t go anywhere new/different to experience different things etc because they know what they like and like what they know.

I’ve learned so much more since I left my little village in north Wales and met so many people across the world, many still friends, and experienced different cultures. Travel does add to climate problems but definitely broadens the mind.

I change my mind on stuff. ie I was totally against the legalistation of drugs but a policeman changed my mind with reasoned argument (not the shouty kind) and well-researched facts and figures and a cogent plan for implementation. His main thrust was wresting control from organised crime, harm prevention, reduction of robbery etc and taxation. When he broke down crime figures and demonstrated just how much crime is drug-driven it was even clearer to me.

One thing that entrenches views is the shouty kind of argument, especially the kind that says opponents are stupid.

Anja I agree that things wouldn't get nasty if people took the time to understand the point being made. I don't think anyone's mind would be changed by a discussion on this forum but understanding why someone thinks the way they do is always preferential to using words and phrases like "stupid" "have a modicum of intelligence"

I think people do become more entrenched in their views as they become elderly.

One theory on learning that I found very useful was this:

You have a 'jigsaw' picture of a topic and also the world around you built up on past knowledge, experiences and the views of others (especially family, parents, close friends).

When you gain a new 'piece' it's simple to slot that in - if it agrees with your 'jigsaw'. If it doesn't agree, however, it requires a monumental effort of rearrangement (maybe a dismantling and rebuilding) of your entire jigsaw and you may have an entirely different picture! Many people will resist this great effort and just reject the new piece, despite logic and sound evidence!

Perhaps the elderly are just too tired to attempt the task of a change of view and are more likely to be deniers.

What do you mean by weakness? That implies that it's wrong to change one's mind when faced by evidence which challenges your view.

I’ve changed my views on several topics over the years, I’m not sure though, if this is more a sign of weakness, too willing to believe what I hear? than flexibility.

I think we should all have an open mind, but I’m not certain our opinions are ever entirely our own, I think we’re easily influenced by people we admire.

BTW From what I know, CBT is about changing deeply ingrained views, if they affect mood.

" if people took more time to understand the point being made "------Would this be your point, Anja ??

I think that seeing thoughts written down can sometimes help me be self-critical and think things through more logically than just having thoughts and feelings whizzing round my head.

We could probably do with somebody with a background in psychology to explain the connection between feelings, based on gut instinct, learnt behaviour, etc and rational thought.

It's quite difficult to change people's views, even based on logical argument. I think the term is cognitive dissonance.

PS. Going out for a while, but this is an interesting topic.

Calm down eazy and yes, this has been my name for quite a while.

This is a wider discussion than just the B word. In fact it transcends even politics inasmuch as it is about the ability to change your own mind on a view you held dear.

It could be about raising children as one example. Many on here who look after grandchildren will have found this. But please don’t get hung up on that one.

Re your point Becket if people took more time to understand the point being made by someone else then perhaps the discussion wouldn’t turn nasty.

I admit to getting annoyed myself. Not because if the views that others hold but by their entrenched position. A willingness to stop and just consider is lacking. Is it the age of people or we’re some people always this way!

I accept that everyone has their own viewpoint on any subject and can feel very strongly about things, however, what I find disappointing is when someone posts a differing opinion the debate can become unpleasant.