A broken country?

Whitewave2 I think we have lost our way & it is a broken country, soon to be fragmented further I think. I am not sure what will become of us all.
I also worry about the loss of our common values but maybe those existed only in my imagination.

Grandad Being a member of the EU was part of that transformation.

In the decades following WW1 things were not perfect, and successive governments had varying attitudes to social problems, but there was a general sense in the air that we were gradually moving forward after almost total disaster, and improving both our position in the world and our social committments. Now we appear to be moving backwards again, and not into the we're-all-in-this-together-but-we-will-get-out-of-it post-war national mood, despite all the "We survived the war" rhetoric from those who didn't live it at the time and don't see the difference.

Yes, change is inevitable, but it seems some people still seem to think the country can return to the days of the British Empire.

The trick is to manage change as well as possible. What's happening now is that the country is being allowed to jump off a cliff. That's not the kind of change which is a force for good.

Grandad1943,I agree with every word you said.

I have no respect at all for politicians now. They squabble like silly school children, and they have made a mockery of our country.

Yes, agreement here too that it was the Thatcher years wot done it, the immeasurable damage to the concept of council housing and mantras of the small state and low taxation leading to the expectations of a high level of public services and unwillingness to pay for it.
What is heartening to see is the return of public spiritedness in volunteering, charitable donations - this is a welcome change from the 'why should I' attitude of 20 years ago.

Did you feel this way before the referendum WWM2?
Change is inevitable and may scare some people. I do think there is an element of looking back through rose tinted glasses.My grandfather was scathing and upset by Harold Wilson and vowed to never vote Labour again, many were upset by Margaret Thatcher’s government etc etc.
The population has grown enormously since then with immigrants from very different countries from ours, with maybe different goals in mind.
We can’t go back, and I’ve always thought it better to look forward in any case.Memory tends to dull the bad things and highlight the good ones.
There really were no ‘good old days’.

grandad you have said what was was trying to say??

My brain a bit knackered.

Well said Grandad1943.

I think I may be on the same wavelength as Gaunt47

I often think of what Mrs. Thatcher did to our communities

I do not think it was a good idea to sell of council houses and now it has gone even further,,,certainly the sense of community is very hard to find now.

programme on tv of some new houses built , specifically for people who needed social housing,, with architect designed area to encourage safe playing outside for the children, and a sense of community

comment made , of course, will be sold off to anyone who can afford to by...... so very sad...imo

Gaunt47, in regard to your post @09:37 today, it should be remembered that following 1945 until the early 1980s Britain very successfully transformed itself from a worldwide imperial power into a worldwide economic power.

That transformation was carried out without the large social unrest that was witnessed in other former imperial powers such as France. The forgoing I feel is a tribute to Britains government(s) both Labour and Conservative that prevailed during that period, for no other nation throughout history has peacefully and successfully made such a transformation as that which Britain achieved.

The above achievement I believe could only be carried out due to both major political parties having an underlying agreed social and economic standard which made up Britains social fabric during those years of huge national change.

It’s happening across the globe, discontent with the established system, the Arab Spring, Gillette Jaune, Trump in the US and Brexit in the U.K. A large part of the population are discontented with their “lot” and want change, with change brings uncertainty because more extra spending on social issues needs either more borrowing or more taxation.

The U.K. with very large open ended social commitments is in a difficult position, national growth is close to zero, many businesses large and small are not making much money. A large number are foreign owned anyway, so who is going to lend to us and at what interest rate?. That cost will be passed on to the population in general and future generations, the U.K. will need to work much harder to repay the debt.

What's the remedy? A common enemy? Getting behind the push to control climate change might work??

Spot on Grandad1943.

I agree that Thatcher's election marked a change in the direction the country was heading. However, the 1970s Callaghan and Heath governments were chaotic and, despite the horrendous things Thatcher did, maybe it was inevitable that a single-minded leader won the day.

I agree with those who don't think the past was all that rosy, although I also think that we're part of something, which is quite deliberately trying to undermine established systems.

We were led to believe that more council houses would be built with the money accrued from right to buy sales for folks who choose the option to do so ..... it never happened, certainly not in the numbers & way it was presented .

Very good post grandad. For myself I now live in a divided country (Scotland). I could weep when I see the state it is in. The march at the weekend shows just how divided it has become. I am born and live in Scotland and now avoid anything political like the plague. This definitely is not the same country I grew up in. Thats all I will say in a public forum.

G1943 & MD - I wonder if the cracks in society didn't begin further back in the 1970s? That, for me, is when disillusionment with 'the system' and the betrayal of the electorate by successive incompetent governments, started to be noted.

I agree with your evaluation Ww. I think many European countries are also going through a similar state of flux. The big game changer I think has been the Internet, where for example, people can readily communicate with those with similar views, however minor or extreme, and under a veil of anonymity can post whatever they like. News is instant and 24 hour and heads of state can announce major policies via tweets. We are now in uncharted territory!

Agree WW and young people are bored stupid by it all.....who can blame them?

I don't think that the period when we had 'common goals' really lasted very long. It started to die when Thatcher was elected in 1979; when she was continually re-elected the decline accelerated. That she was continually re-elected indicates to me that 'consensus' didn't really exist very strongly..

I believe that following the second world war there was a general consensus as to the basic principles that should be upheld in this country. The surprise election of the Clement Attlee Labour government in 1945 demonstrated the above and much social change was brought about by that hugely reforming administration.

However, even with the election of the Winston Churchill Conservative government of 1950 that administration changed little of the reforms that the Atlee government had brought forward.

That consensus of governance continued I feel until 1979 when the Thatcher administration began the dismantling of the "social fabric" that had prevailed in Britain for more than thirty-five years.

Those changes (such as the selling off of the council housing stock) have in many instances taken almost three decades to manifest their true impact, but in that, we see the roots of the present housing crisis, the growing inequality of incomes and very much more.

The Brexit crisis has I feel only exaggerated the growing social and political diversions that were already within Britain, and in a nation which has no underlying agreed social foundation standards, that is a very dangerous route to be travelling.

WWM2, absolutely the economy has grown but I'm not sure that immigrants have ever assimilated entirely. The cities I knew: New York, Toronto, London have definable ghettos from where money is sent to 'home' countries since it's much easier now to send money abroad than post-WW2.
I just don't think peoples from different backgrounds can be expected to agree on common goals. Doesn't make them wrong, just different IMO.

We certainly seem to be very divided on the 'goals' you talk about Whitewave. I would agree with Callistemon that what we achieved could have been better done but that is really said with hindsight and it was actually better than what came before it.

Does the country as a whole have ANY goals? Do we have any agreement to improve the lives of anyone other than ourselves? It would be good to know even one goal we could agree on.