A broken country?

Goodness knows where you live, aprilrose, but I sincerely hope I never end up there. It sounds full of ghastly people. I'm happy to say that where I live (and where most other people live) is different.

At one point this afternoon did you decide to go on Gransnet and wind up as many people as possible?

I read the French are calling us

“ The Hate Island”

How on earth did we get to this?

They can talk with their ongoing problems.

However, I think there is some truth in the statement. How did we get here .... well when at first you practice to thwart a democratic process, you end up with hate. Contempt breeds hate. Remain minded, note - it is your determination to overturn a democratic decision that has led to this. I don't think we will ever be anything but hate soon. I feel everywhere in my area. It isnt going to heal anytime soon.

Let us leave the EU and you might find that it will scab over sooner but the poison that has been injected will be there a long time I think.

I wasnt born in the 1950's so I can hardly return to a view I never about.

I sepent a lot of time talking to farmers about their views before the referendum. I know what they think and thought then. You have to talk to real every day farmers not the bodies that are supposedly speaking for them sometimes.

After all, I belong to a union. I pay my fees. Against my wishes it seems they pay part of that as a levy to the Labout Party. They also claim to speak for me on many matters relating to the industry I work in. However, in my experience much of what they say is political twaddle and not something I would put my name to ordinarily. But they do not ask me. They just ask for my payment . I pay up because my employer prefers we have a union and he has only one body to deal with when he wants to alter contracts etc.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

There are other markets not in the EU. There is also a very hungry domestic market. Where I live most farmers wanted to leave the EU. They cant all be wrong.

Stop the catastophising.

Why would a no deal be catastrophic for British farming?

Trade embargo

EU legislation could effectively result in a trade embargo on the export of UK animal based products such as meat, eggs and dairy to the EU. These products can only be imported by the EU from approved countries, and it could take months for such status to be granted to the UK. The lamb industry would be particularly impacted. In 2017, 31% of domestic sheep meat production, the equivalent of 4.5million sheep, was exported and 94% was destined for the EU.

Increased imports

The UK government could avoid charging tariffs on imports to prevent a rise in food prices, which could have a negative impact on domestic food production and consumer choice, as well as an increase in imports of products produced to lower standards.

Export tariffs

Export tariffs could be imposed on the 60% of UK food, feed and drink that go to the EU, increasing export tariffs to an average of 27% on chicken, 46% on lamb, 65% on beef, and range from €172 to €1,494 per tonne in pork.

A cut in access to farm inputs

It is likely that trade barriers will go up between the UK and EU which could limit the availability of many farm inputs such as veterinary medicines, fertilisers, plant protection products, machinery parts and animal feed. Furthermore, as the EU will no longer recognise UK organic certification bodies, exports of organic products to the EU would be severely curtailed.

Less workers

The sudden end of labour mobility from the EU would cause serious problems when it comes to securing the necessary labour to harvest and process UK produce, as well as in related roles such as carrying out veterinary inspections.

Organic exports cut

As the EU will no longer recognise UK organic certification bodies, exports of organic products to the EU would be severely curtailed.

www.nfuonline.com/news/eu-exit/eu-exit-news/why-a-no-deal-brexit-is-catastrophic-for-british-farming/

Make sure you wear your X.R. Badge when you go to London

helena ?
@helenafmckeown

I was stopped & searched today, prevented to cross the river Thames unless escorted and threatened with arrest without warning if I assembled with one or more other people. Only because I wore an @ExtinctionR sticker. I used to feel safe here... amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/extinction-rebellion-blanket-ban-chilling-and-unlawful

Whitewave, the French have always called us names! Agreed, though, that we must, by now, be the laughing stock of the entire world. Viewing politics as a comedy helps! Time for a re-run of 'Yes, Prime Minister'?

I read the French are calling us.

“ The Hate Island”

How on earth did we get to this?

Jo Maugham QC

Trying to warn against climate catastrophe?

Police: can I see your ID.

Far Right march?

Police: as you were.

How on earth did we get to this?

The police action has Patel’s hands all over it.

When has Johnson’s government allowed a little thing like the law get in its way?

A populist authoritarian state?

Mayor of London

I am seeking further information from senior officers about the operational decision to impose a section 14 order on Extinction Rebellion Autumn Uprising – and why this was necessary.

Worrying times

Kevin Maguire

We should all be concerned at the Met Police's draconian ban on Extinction Rebellion protests. Clear roads, yes. Prohibit peaceful demos, no. The right to protest is a fundamental right in any vibrant democracy

A good question

Georgi Georgiev #FBPE
@radi_georgi

So Brexit Party Ltd. abstained when European Parliament requested the British woman held in Iran to be released. Brexit Party Ltd. voted against a resolution that is amended against the Russian meddling in Europe. What is the point of the Brexit Party Ltd.? To resurrect fascism?

Johnson making sure that the gulf between those with power and those without power is widened.

Armando Iannucci
@Aiannucci
Govt bill in Queen’s Speech to make voters show ID at elections is stolen from US Republicans playbook. There’s very little voter fraud in U.K.; this measure designed to suppress voting by the least advantaged. A hint of what’s to come under an unchecked Johnson Government.

I'm not really that bothered by what you think of me. I happen to have quite strong views of anybody who defines themselves by class because I think it's an outdated way of viewing society. I have never felt I belong to any particular class after I rejected my parents' way of judging people.

I don't think it would matter if you could see my face. There was nothing else behind what I wrote.

What do you mean by working class values?

growstuff, as I have previously said, we all interpret posts and comments differently. What a boring old world it would be, if we all thought the same.
As we cannot hear intonation, nor see facial expression, we have to take the written word at face value.

I fully accept that my interpretation of your post may not be what you meant, but that was how I read it.
Of course you are entitled to post your views, as I am mine, we do not need to agree, but should be able to do so without animosity and respect each other's opinion.

I did not intend this to become personal, that is not my way, so I shall retreat to the gentler and more supportive threads and comment no more.

Marydoll That's not what I mean by an inverted snob and I don't think it's how it's normally understood. My understanding is that "inverted snobs" look down on people who don't come from that kind of harsh background. I didn't and I'm not going to pretend I did. The fact that I'm now amongst the poorest people in the country is down to my own bad judgment and some bad luck. Nevertheless, despite my upbringing on Merseyside, I still speak standard English and had a private school education. There's not much I can do about that and I do object to people who think I'm a snob.

In my view, working class in past generations were persons who worked in Britains many factories, warehouses or as stevedores on the docks etc. The foregoing all involved heavy manual or very repetitive work and were recognised as working class people due to the fact that such workers normally had a background of their parents being engaged in the same industries and work.

Today that has very much changed in my experience. The working class are now those that work in large distribution centres as pickers, forklift drivers and yard shunter's etc. That employment can mean working very long hours and also shift work which involves very unsocial hours. However, that employment is normally well paid and very stable.

Along with the above, you have those who work in call centres or mainstream retail outlets which still can involve unsocial hours in many cases but that is carried out on minimum wage variable hour contracts.

Finally, you have those working in the events industry or fast food and coffee chain outlets etc, who very often work on zero-hour contracts or in many cases Gig Economy terms of employment where there is no guaranteed income.

The difference in the present day to previous generations would be that those who work in todays above industries come from backgrounds that cross all social bands in upbringing, People find themselves working in the above "minimal employment condions" is purely down to having only obtained poor education grades while in mainstream education.

Many such people employed in the above conditions do not view themselves as "working class." Indeed, I believe that a such term is rarely used by anyone in these times especially in reference to themselves.

In my early years of upbringing, whole generations of families worked in Bristols huge cigarette industry and its associated supply companies, and those people were proud to refer to themselves as working class.

However, those industries along with the lifelong employment they provided is now long gone, and no one now wishes to be referred to as working class, for that carries the stigma of failure in these times.

I'm not an inverted anything ,just someone proud of my roots.My maternal GM's political influence on me has lasted all my life.My fathers awful start didn't stop him being a wonderful husband to my mum for almost 50 years and a fantastic dad .
Like Marydoll my ancestors came from Ireland during the famine and lived in poverty for years ,her daughter my GM told us about GGM being the kindest hearted woman in the world ,while having very little themselves they took in an old woman who was blind and who would have ended her days in the workhouse..no benefits then.They cared for her until she died .

It"s a public forum and we are all going to have different perceptions and interpretations of posts.

I'm not explaining this very well , but my perception of " working class", is that of poor, Irish immigrants coming to Scotland, seeking work., and living in poverty, because that is my experience, which may be totally different from other people's concept of working class.

I probably AM an " inverted snob", proud to have dragged myself out of the abject poverty I was brought up in, by getting an education.
That is what is great about this country, education is free!

I suspect that there will be few on here, who have experienced such poverty as a child, that their mother didn't have enough money in her purse to buy a loaf of bread.

I'm struggling to find any snobbery on this thread. Who is the supposed culprit?

If it is who I think you're all thinking it is then I think you've misread her post.

Apologies then growstuff. I too grew up in a heavily bombed town, perhaps the most heavily bombed after London. Although no one knew about it because it was seen as too dangerous to security to publicise. The council had an excellent programme of council house building, although actually the bombing managed to miss some of the worst slum areas in the city and devastated the shopping centre. I thought every city had streets with "bombed buildings" at the end of them and houses with wallpaper and staircase marks on the walls. Funny how you just accept things as the norm when you are a kid.

PS. I'm very suspicious of inverted snobbery.