Horrific news

I thought it was exceedingly bitchy (Nonnie's post)

They must have been desperate to pay a huge amount to smugglers and step inside the lorry. I can't begin to image being in that position.

I agree, ineedamum, and if you are desperate you are likely to do desperate things. Also, I guess most of them were young and gullible and had been made to believe that the venture would be successful.

It is all so tragic.

They are told to do it by their families. They have immense pressure put on them.
It is terrifying.

I thank you pink for your knowledge and sensitivity.
I'm off here now, it's unbearable.

Due to the totally inadequate checks at our ports, people manage to get here. Word (and money) gets back to their families, encouraging more to try. The government were warned last year that smaller ports would be targeted. It seems that they don't care about the inevitable loss of life!

Gonegirl Sat 26-Oct-19 16:09:31 Which one? Always best to link (as I have done) or quote. However, my posts have either supported people or responded to nastiness (not alone in that) so perhaps it says more about the accuser than the accused? I'm used to people on here interpreting my post to suit the way they minds work. However do feel free to say what you like about me, many on here know me well enough to make up their own minds.

ineedamum Sat 26-Oct-19 16:12:34 I agree but would like to widen that view. I suspect they come from whole villages which are desperate. I heard that villages all donate to help just one person to head for better conditions and that it is expected that when they reach the 'promised land' they will work hard and send money back to the village.

A man on Any Answers was really quite unpleasant, they should know better etc. but I ask how they are supposed to know better? This was in answer to a question "would we have been as sympathetic if they hadn't died". I would, like so many on here who agree their lives are unimaginable I would have plenty of sympathy. I wouldn't have any at all for the people behind it though.

I may be showing my ignorance but there must be so many people involved? The drivers, the organisers- are there people in the UK who help them disappear?

Many of us have become used to that poster and know that very few take any notice or, if they do, they respond appropriately. Have you thought about the sort of person who chooses to be nasty? I can't imagine how unhappy someone has to be to want to hurt others. I rarely respond, just feel sorry for them and move on

That one.

I think you're probably right Nonnie. That's why that poor girl texted an apology to her mother that she'd failed, as she was struggling to breathe and was dying. I expect she knew that a lot had been invested in her.

ineedamum There must be dozens of people involved. The driver has now been charged and another four people arrested in the UK and Ireland. The Belgian police are involved and, of course, there are the recruiters in the people's countries of origin - and those who will "punish" the families if the money isn't repaid and those running the cannabis factories or wherever they are put to work. The list goes on.

That driver was guilty from the off. When he'd said that he'd heard screams, it was a lie. Those poor souls would have been dead when he picked them up. An out and out criminal with no thought for human life----a psychopath who was void of any feeling for his " cargo " which he'd have known about. Evil ! To put money before human life has got to be the worst crime of all.

It's impossible for most of these people to enter in the conventional way unless they have a bona-fide address which is checked out. This is why they're smuggled in to work in those industries ( cheap labour ) who will " employ " them. Then you have the obnoxious rogue landlords who fleece the poor souls who live 20 to a room. This exploitation has got to stop !!

Every now and again in Australia there are police busts where Chinese/Vietnamese are rooted out from restaurants, farms and factories then deported.

will some police from EU and UK combined go to Vietnam and find the smugglers?

As the families pay then they know who they are. Or their Agents... who collects the money?

If tit goes high up then can the UN step in?
Does the UN ever actually do anything except talk?

I want to see that action is taken against the smugglers at the source ie Vietnam. I have heard they might be Chinese working with Europeans over here. Europeans includes Ireland, N Ireland and the UK.

It has to be stopped It is totally evil.

I think an education approach would be beneficial letting people in these countries know that the risk of death in these transportations is very high and deportation certain, even if successful.

The young Irish driver has been charged with manslaughter

The only answer is to have better security and checks at our ports. Rare spot checks are a total joke. Many come through Turkey where security is very lax too.

On radio 4 today, relatives (in Vietnam )of a young man who died in the transporter, said they knew he was in there, and relatives were going to meet him in England when he arrived.
It’s a mistake to think that all who come into this country that way will be treated as slaves by gang masters, or that they come from terribly poor villages.
Although people have died, in lorries en route, most do arrive here in health, just under uncomfortable circumstances, and so think that it’s worth it.Somehow their countries must get the message through that it could be a fatal journey.

I believe that the basis for this horrific incident may well be found in the structure of the Road Haulage Industry. In the main approximately six multinational companies control road distribution within the United kingdom. These are companies such as DHL, Wincanton, Bibby Distribution etc. Those organisations carryout the main haulage for the large supermarket retailers and manufacturers and it is their logos (Tesco etc) you see on the sides of the vehicles.

That stated, with journeys through the ports to and from European Union Countries those main distributors subcontract that work to smaller mid-sized hauliers who operate on a regular basis to become the backbone of the British based JIT services to and from the continent.

However, there are often ad-hoc loads that are not regular work such as when a supermarket chain is carrying out offers on fruit etc. Such irregular loads are again sub contacted by those companies doing the main continental work and that is carried out often by one person owner driver hauliers who operate with no regular contracts or guarantees of work whatsoever.

For such operators the revenue rates for what they carry out can offten be very low being that the Distribution companies in the layers above them take their percentage before passing the work on. Those owner drivers can at times find themselves on the continent or even in Britain unable to find a paying load for their vehicle or having a tonnage freight rate so low it will hardly pay for the fuel for the journey.

In the above, it has been widely felt throughout the industry for some time that some of those often desperate owner-drivers may be open to offers from people traffickers to bring their "cargo" into Britain.

As evidence to the above, anyone only has to look at the tractor unit of the vehicle involved in the Purfleet tragedy. That truck is in sole vehicle ownership of a family. However, it is fitted with such equipment as chrome exhausts, specialised personal paintwork, large banks of spotlights and much more. Therefore anyone has to ask where did the many thousands of pounds come from so as to be available to a third-tier haulier that enabled the vehicle to be "Jazzed up" in such a manner.

I would emphasise that the vast majority of Britains owner driver operators would in all probability never consider getting involved in such trafficking, but to some the very lucrative amounts of money on offer for such activity must obviously be very attractive.

Therefore many involved in the distribution industry or who like myself work in close association with it believe that it is the fundamental structure of trans continental haulage that requires change if such tragedies as that which has happened at Purfleet are to be avoided in the future.

Very interesting comments on the lorry in question Geandad - that would not have occurred to me although we have a smallish haulage company in our village whose lorries are immaculate and as modern as they come. They dont come cheap.
I believe they are pretty prosperous but the care lavished on their vehicles also shows the pride they take in their fleet.
Your insights have been .uch appreciated, the haulage industry not being most people's "specialist subject"

Pinkquarts
They haven't got a hope hell of catching these people in their own country.
The eu have got to look at the weak borders in Bulgaria
I have personnel experience of petty corruption ( if there is such a thing) and lots of knowledge from my dear friend in Bulgaria who's husband was a border guard.
Another friend bribed the guards on the BG /Turkey border bringing in gold and silver.
This is all small fry but it shows that it's common place.

What most people ( who haven't lived in BG) don't realise is how powerful the Mafia are in BG. It is almost like 2 governments running parallel to each other, and as everyone knows, the mafia know where the money is: people trafficking.

Another coincidence: there is a big Irish community in Varna.
That's where the lorry was first registered.

GG54, why bring in Brexit, it has nothing whatsoever to do with it. They come here as nothing more than slaves, poor often uneducated people who have been promised a better life. They are promised well paid jobs etc but in reality that isn't the case and end up living and working in horrendous conditions. The warnings should start in the country of origin and more needs to be done to close down these gangs who inflict such misery on the poor.

I really feel for the families left behind, the people who had to deal with finding the bodies and also for the people who died in such an awful way. I just hope that the families of the dead are given visas and support to come here and take part in any investigation. i can only hope this will never happen again. RIP

Very interesting input Grandad. Thank you.

Hetty Better security and more checks would be prohibitively expensive and just push the problem elsewhere. Apparently, tighter security at Dover is why traffickers now use ports such as Purfleet.

I have no idea how many "cargos" of illegal immigrants actually succeed, but even doubling the number of checks would almost certainly mean that some still get through. The smugglers would probably think the risk worth it and the victims probably wouldn't know. Sadly, it takes a tragedy such as this one to deter people. Apparently, it's estimated that the numbers decreased after the 2000 tragedy, when 58 Chinese died. The young Vietnamese lady whose picture has been published had actually reached England a few days before the tragedy, but had been detected and deported back to France, where she tried another method.

The husband of a friend works for BF and has told me that the government prefers money to be spent on checking imports rather than investigating criminal networks. Apparently, BF finds this very frustrating because they have a very good idea how the networks work, but don't have the resources to investigate. It seems the government would rather catch the victims rather than the criminals who are making huge profits.

petra If anything, that's a reason why the UK should stay in the EU, so that we can perhaps have some influence on border enforcement. When/if we leave the EU, countries such as Bulgaria will care even less about numbers of these people ending up in the UK. It won't be Bulgaria's problem. They're more likely to wave them on their way.