Horrific news

Weighing the trailers should be done at the start of their journey, then again at each border control.

petra Sun 27-Oct-19 11:50:34 Thank you. I thought you had information I didn't. However it wasn't necessary for you to tell me "You have to understand that bribery and corruption is part and parcel of these eastern block countries." I already knew that but I still condemn anyone who who do something so inhuman no matter what their personal circumstances are.

This type of tragedy will happen again, whether or not UK border security is tightened up and more checks are done. All that will happen is that the deaths occur elsewhere.

A focus on international intelligence investigating a whole range of criminal activities is needed.

newnanny Heat scanners don't work with refrigerated containers.

Three other people have been arrested and two of them, a married couple have had their photo released.

Nonnie
Nobody knows by which route these people were taken through.

The reason I mentioned Bulgaria is because I know from personal experience how weak the borders coming into and exiting Bulgaria are.

As I mentioned previously if people knew what poor wages these people are earning they might understand.

I'm not excusing the border guards who take bribes because obviously (I hope) they are totally unaware of what is in that lorry. They just want a little bit more for their families.

You have to understand that bribery and corruption is part and parcel of these eastern block countries.

It seems that the police believe the driver was involved in the conspiracy but he was not responsible for loading the migrants so probably will get convicted of lesser charges if found guilty.

My eldest son is lorry driver and they must do checks on lorry/temperature, if a chilled lorry/paperwork BEFORE setting off, not after. He does not do international driving though so maybe different. Some ports have stronger borders than others with heat detecting scanners. Clearly more needs to be done to improve security at all UK borders or this type of tragedy will happen again. If there are not enough staff then we need to recruit and train more.

As he is the only one named and has been photographed, his private life dissected, I hope all this publicity will not prejudice any future trial or send the others involved underground.

Nonnie Essex Police has requested that people don't speculate - fat chance of that! They have stated that they're not giving further updates, so I'm assuming (hoping) that they know a lot more than they're letting on.

There's a bit of a Twitterstorm going on about the driver. The murder charge has now been changed to manslaughter, although it seems almost certain that the people died before they even landed in Essex. Nevertheless, there's too much that just doesn't add up and too much nonsense flying around social media about him.

I suspect we're going to have to wait for the court case to find out what he's actually being accused of doing.

Exactly GabriellaG54! They are forced to work for several years (unless they're caught) and have to work for years to pay off the debt.

In the case of young Chinese, they probably can raise a significant sum from relatives. The one child policy means that one child has four grandparents and eight grandparents. They could be the only great grandchild. Giving money to grandchildren is a cultural tradition in China.

I don't know about Vietnam, but I read that sometimes whole villages will club together to "sponsor" one person to be sent off abroad. Even low paid jobs in Europe pay many times the available jobs in some parts of Vietnam.

petra Sat 26-Oct-19 21:12:51 Did they come through Bulgaria? I didn't know that although I read that the trailer came from there.

I wonder if manslaughter instead of murder is significant? Was it the driver who called the police? Why did he stop in a place known for dropping off people who had been trafficed? Did he think he was opening the doors to let them out and when he saw they were dead he called the police? I so much was to think he was a collaborator and didn't realised the implications. I don't want to believe he was complicit.

Gonegirl Sat 26-Oct-19 17:26:04 I'm sorry you think like that but it is my opinion and not bitchy. I think those on the receiving ends of nasty posts will entirely agree with me. You may well have seen that one thanked me. If course I suppose it rather depends on the way you choose to read it. I respect your right to do so.

growstuff
I'm well aware of the part loan sharks play but some was, in the words of the families of the persons we're talking about, borrowed from/given by relatives or friends.
One cannot imagine that loan sharks honestly think that workers wages in such poorly paying industries as fast food or nail bars, could possibly cover the debts owed.
Even if they took the whole £10k in one fell swoop (assuming that was the earned amount over 12 months) it means that larger amounts would take longer to recover and only when those people were working.

It seems these poor people were dead long before they reached here - what a nightmare for their families.

As I've mentioned before, the husband of a friend of mine works for Border Force at a very senior level. Obviously, he doesn't talk that much about his work, but I have occasionally picked up snippets from his wife.

I wonder why Hetty58 thinks Border Force is a "complete joke". I wonder what she'd actually like them to do at every single entry point into the UK. What actual experience or knowledge do you have Hetty58?

growstuff, you seem to know what you are talking about, rather than making assumptions based on our own lives.

People can have mobile phones and be clueless. It is one of the first things an asylum seeker/refugee will get his/her hands on.

The conversations I have had with people are imprinted on my mind. Friends dying beside them in rubber dingies,family left behind and some that are just too gruesome to share.

Of course the UK needs to be safe, we need to know who is here. Successive governments have messed this up. Not all migrants are here with decent motives.

But ask yourself why on earth would you put yourself through these hideous journeys, if all you wanted was to set up a business or scrounge accommodation.

They are humans, living breathing things like us. We are losing our humanity. Mind you in some cases, maybe there wasn't too much there to start with.

I agree with you Davidhs, although the word "illegals" sets my teeth on edge. Please dignify them with the use of a noun, at the very least.

GabriellaG54 The families borrow the money from loan sharks, who demand repayment from the money illegal immigrants are able to earn abroad. Sometimes they even control the places the immigrants work, so take the money at source.

Illegal migrants are put to work by agencies run by the underworld gangs, most are paying off their trafficking debts, apart from squalid housing and food they are paid very little. The gangs and the businesses that employ them pocket the profit, a lot of the so called respectable businesses do it, not just Take Aways or Curry Houses.

If illegals were not available wages would rise and your chop suey would cost more. The only industry that controls agencies is Farming, the Gangmasters Authority oversees agencies there occasionally they do find illegals, but not often. All other sectors are unregulated and workers can be in London one week, Manchester next and Bristol the week after.

At present it is said that only 1 % of trucks are checked so the chances of being caught is very low, that is a joke there must be hundreds of illegals getting in every week.

BorderForce's budget was £588 million in 2018/19. It budget for 2019/20 has been cut to £577 million, despite the fact that BF says it needs another 2,000 staff (estimated cost £70/80 million) just to cope with Brexit.

So that's an extra £81/91 million (approx.) just to stand still. Even doubling the number of border checks on containers and lorries would still mean that 98% are unchecked and the cost would be almost doubled. Statistically, a chance of being detected of 1% or 2% isn't that significant. To make any real difference, there would need to be many more checks, which certainly would cost billions.

In any case, I'm not sure whether you want to stop deaths in total or only on British soil.

There is the added factor that the UK will no longer be part of the international operations, which have been important in tracking down a few of the people involved in the current tragedy.

How do you work out that it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive? At the moment, approximately 1% of containers are screened for illegal immigrants. To check all of them would cost 100 times the current budget. Not only that but another group of people here illegally are people who overstay their visas. Seriously, we're talking about billions!

I'm trying to think of the benefits to the economy. Illegal immigrants have to work below the radar. They cannot claim benefits or housing and most are scared to seek healthcare. They work in care, cleaning, catering, agriculture or cannabis farms - mainly cash in hand. Are you seriously saying that people would step in to set up nail bars, etc if all illegal immigrants were weeded out? They might not be contributing to the economy, apart from spending some of their money here, but they're not taking from it either.

Moreover, after Brexit, there will be even more people who will potentially be illegal immigrants. Personally, I really do think that the government could spend money more wisely than creating a UK fortress, which wouldn't stop people finding weak links anyway.

Growstuff, better security would be expensive, but not 'prohibitively' so. Our border control is a complete joke, but there lies the crux of the matter. Our government won't pay to stop illegal immigration. Think of the benefits to the economy, a cheap labour force with absolutely no obligations!

Instead, they can quote meaningless figures to reassure/bewilder us. Of course, most illegal immigrants are here because they've overstayed their work or study visas. Still, we have no ID card system.

Lives could easily be saved by discouraging those coming in lorries and by boat - but let's face it, we throw our arms up in horror, then forget all about it by next week - until the next time :

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-new-border-staff-are-we-really-getting

£300pm income but how many of us could scrape together 10 20 or even £30k from friends and family?
None look impoverished. Some have previously travelled abroad and all have mobile phones and in that case, social media and access to worldwide news, not cut off from the realities of what goes on in other countries.
A real enough tragedy, but I couldn't see anyone from here doing the same if the positions were reversed.
Yes, we move to better our earning power but through legal channels.
It may be, as has been suggested on here, parents pushing their offspring in order to have their income sent back to family.
I do personally know of a woman who was here on a work permit, met and married a British man and worked as a private carer in order to send money home to family in her country of origin/birth in the EU.
The plan was to return 'home' at some point sans husband.
Many people in the caring and other professions do just that - maybe not the married bit, but sending money back to family is normal in lots of societies.
I very much doubt that we can ever effectively patrol our borders to exclude trafficking activity.
I hope that the curators of this crime get just punishment in the form of life sentences, life meaning not fewer than 30 years served.

This is an issue for the humanitarian organisations.