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Can anyone apart from the elite, say what they want from Brexit

(186 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Mon 28-Oct-19 08:21:18

I am aware that this blog post treads on contentious ground. But I think it only fair to say that I could not answer European’s questions as to what Brexiters want, put to me last week.

I can answer why we got Brexit. Austerity and the attitudes of indifference that led to it can answer almost all aspects of that question in some way or other. If an elite does not care eventually the majority find a way to bite back. And they did. So I am not saying I do not understand why a majority voted as they did. I think I do. I am instead saying I do not know what Leavers want now.

It’s clear that the government wants to pursue radical de-regulation on everything from worker to environmental, social and financial protections. Their goal is Singapore-on-Thames where they can show contempt for international norms and standards on every imaginable issue, and depart from previously hallowed ground on matters such as the NHS. Their desired outcome is a country with a more powerful and relatively richer elite, and they are indifferent as to whether that reduces the income of all else in the country. They, at least, can be understood.

But why do so many still support Leave when it is so apparent that this agenda is so harmful to them? And I mean harmful in the sense of very obviously imposing restrictions on their well-being? What is the trade off? Where is the gain? What advantage does the pursuit of English nationalism provide that makes it worthwhile having despite it making most worse off within the country, and by international comparison?

I know I am told, time and again, that I must seek to understand the Leaver. And I have tried. And no Leaver I have met has ever come close to being able to answer the simple question ‘how will your life be better by leaving given that you know there are costs from doing so?’ The best most do is deny the cost. But they still can’t explain the gain.

Richard Murphy
Oct 2019

MaizieD Tue 29-Oct-19 18:07:28

Exactly, GagaJo.

I would like to be told what I am going to gain from Brexit. How my life will be improved. I want them to sell it to me...

Clearly I don't agree with their reasons for voting Leave, but that's not the issue now. The issue is how is it going to benefit us?

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:06:48

Of course I haven't. hmm

maddyone Tue 29-Oct-19 18:05:47

Have you any evidence or links that prove that people voted leave because they don’t like Muslims being let into the country Gonegirl?

GagaJo Tue 29-Oct-19 18:00:41

The ones you're talking about Gonegirl are white. HOW does the average Brit know their religion?

Although I DID get funny looks in Asda while on chemo due to my style of head scarf wearing (genuinely).

Blimey, grapefruitpip, you must have wiles of the like that I've NEVER possessed.

But again. WHAT do you want from Brexit? Seems that not a single leaver can be specific.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:57:04

I don't care anymore. Stuff the lot of it. The world will just have to go on turning, one way or another.

grapefruitpip Tue 29-Oct-19 17:56:43

I want to turn the clock back and throw myself at Cameron. Seeing my stunning beauty, he will invite me out for a cozy meal. Over dinner, I will persuade him of the error of his ways, whereupon he will break into a rousing chorus of " Let's Call the Whole thing Off"

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:54:58

If I spell it out my post will probably get deleted, but never mind.

I believe a lot of leavers voted leave because they didn't like the number of Muslims being allowed into the country. The Eastern European ones.

M0nica Tue 29-Oct-19 17:53:24

What do I want from brexit? I want it to go away.

GagaJo Tue 29-Oct-19 17:52:22

Has anyone said what they want from Brexit? I started wading through responses but didn't see any.

What DO you want from it?

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:52:06

Yes Monica. There is no difference whatsoever.

Never mind.

grapefruitpip Tue 29-Oct-19 17:39:39

I don't understand the " for goodness sake"?

M0nica Tue 29-Oct-19 17:34:41

Gonegirl your second sentence contradicts your first one. A Dutch person taking a job in the UK is an immigrant. How does a Dutch person taking a job differ from someone from an Eastern European country taking a job in the UK? Both are EU citizens.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:28:16

Actually it was the OP I was answering.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:27:11

I was answering grapefruitpip's question.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:26:20

I DON'T THINK THAT!!!!!

hmm

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:25:24

I'm not sure you can separate "immigration" and "race" in this context. No one bats an eyelid if a Dutch person comes into the country and gets a job.

MaizieD Tue 29-Oct-19 17:24:07

Do you have any evidence of council flats going to EU workers, Gonegirl? I'm not trying to point score, just curious as council flats are like hen's teeth these days...

M0nica Tue 29-Oct-19 17:22:32

grapefruitpip I do not think race played a big part in the referendum, but I think immigration did. As I commented on another thread. Many people, especially in the poorer economic regions, saw membership of the EU as being an influx of uncontrollably numbers of immigrants who were taking their jobs and forcing their wages down.

That this perception was wrong is irrelevant.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:21:11

I think to many people, jobs and council flats going to the dreaded/feared/disliked "foreigners" was crucial.

Not to all, but to many.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:19:02

Oh, for goodness sake! hmm

grapefruitpip Tue 29-Oct-19 17:15:58

Sorry, it was a genuine question. I am interested. I think ethnicity and colour and fear were crucial.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 17:12:53

I'm not spelling it out grapefruitpip!

grapefruitpip Tue 29-Oct-19 17:00:08

sorry typo.

grapefruitpip Tue 29-Oct-19 16:59:39

so you think race played a big part in the refendum Gonegirl?

Nonnie Tue 29-Oct-19 16:59:18

GabriellaG54 Tue 29-Oct-19 15:48:54 then you don't read your own posts! Never mind Gabby it gives us all a good laugh.