Can anyone apart from the elite, say what they want from Brexit

What's a tea time Trotsky please?

Is it a new biscuit?

I and many others on GN have said similar things for the last few years but have grown weary of the repeating/ demands etc since then.
We all voted the way we voted on all sides....the highly educated, the poorly educated, the intelligent and the not so,
The young, the middle aged and the old, those living in poor areas, those living in well off areas, those who vote Labour, those who vote Conservative, those who vote Lib Dem/other.
In short, we all voted the way we thought was best for our country, end of!
The hate/ anger/ dislike must stop ( when directed at voters and not just politicians.)
It’s particularly awful on sites like this one.....older people against other older people, mainly women.
Save your ire for those in Parliament that you disagree with.

Well said Lemongrove.

If the vote had gone the other way I don’t think that Leavers would have kept up a continuous barrage of vile and abusive condemnation of people who exercised their democratic right to vote.

The massive number of immigrants in our area have kept wages artificially low because they will tolerate living conditions that come from a bygone era. They are crowded into rented houses and several people take turns to sleep in the same bed. The landlords, often immigrants themselves, rent out mattresses in mouldy basements with no windows and even cover the back garden with flimsy sheds. The often illegal immigrants are totally trapped and often work for far less than the minimum wage, most of which goes back to the landlords for rent and loan repayments.

My OH was posting leaflets promoting his business and was carrying them in a briefcase. The door of a rundown house opened and a long stream of panic stricken young men charged past him. They assumed he was some kind of official probably because he was wearing a suit and carrying said briefcase.

Easy for the tea-time Trotsky’s to sit in their comfortable homes in tree lined avenues and pontificate and pass cruel and unfair judgement on their fellow countrymen whilst many Locally born young people will suffer from the artificially low wages in the black economy and see no likelihood of buying or even renting a home of their own.

Most decent people recognise that there are two sides to every issue and respect the fact that others are perfectly entitled to vote as they see fit. I am sure that there are any number of remain voters who did so purely because it benefited themselves or their family which is their democratic right.

If the Remainers want to vent their spleen on other people perhaps they should take issue with the young people who couldn’t be arsed to get themselves to the polling stations!

trisher ...nobody without a crystal ball can say with certainty what will happen at any time, but the hope is that
Life will get better, particularly for the lower paid in the UK when we are out of the EU.It will take time, I accept that, no easy fixes or unicorns, but since this is the biggest change in our country since we entered the EU, it will be worth it in the end. We can throw out a government that we don’t like every five years ( at the moment) but cannot control the EU.
Stopping freedom of movement and going over to a points based system will help enormously in keeping wages higher, and striking trade deals where the UK wants to.Eventually all countries in the EU will have to go over to the euro ( we wouldn’t be able to stay out of that choice IMHO.)
We wouldn’t be waiting for EU handouts from our own money sent there, and will be able to direct our own money where we will.
For me, that all equals ‘better’.

Ha ha grapefruitpip - I’m definitely in your group!

The remainers go on and on about the brexiters harping back to the war but they don’t see the irony of them harping back to the referendum three and a half years ago!

Labaik I read somewhere that 44% of the people who think Johnson's deal is better than May's deal don't even know what's in the deal.

I hope you're not putting else on hold while you wait for any kind of answer.

That's what really gets me Tricia. I really do accept that some areas of the country and some people have had a bad deal over the last few years. Some criticism of the EU is valid, but the EU has become a convenient scapegoat (along with immigrants, Muslims, single mothers, health tourists, benefit scroungers, political correctness, health & safety regs, anybody/anything else who can be blamed …) The big question, however, is how leaving the EU will make life any better, especially in former industrial areas. After three and a half years nobody has come up with an answer to that one.

Yes; I await a valid comment from someone who voted Brexit. I really would value a point by point comment from a leaver about what they wanted from brexit, at the time of the referendum ,what they now want from Brexit and how much of that is in Johnsons deal.

I am beginning to loathe these bloody labels.....Leaver and Remainer.

How about a Fedupper?

Thank you lemongrove well said.

Same here Maizie. This is a Tory stronghold, but I can guarantee that the vast majority of those who voted to Remain don't vote Tory. Labour and LibDems are quite weak because they've more or less given up over the years. The demographic profile of the remaining Tory voters in this constituency tends to be older and home owning, who did very well for themselves as baby boomers and pre-baby boomers. I've spoken to quite a lot of them and I could bet on their attitude to a number of issues unrelated to Brexit.

However, just north of here is Cambridge, where nobody could claim educational standards are low. The City of Cambridge is a Labour/LibDem marginal (currently held by Labour) and South Cambridgeshire has a LibDem council.

Brexit has shredded traditional political party loyalties.

The question being asked is "How will life be better if we leave?" and Lemonhas simply proved the blogger right, failing to give any explanation of how life will be better, simply telling Remainers that they have to accept the result of the referendum. Can it be that actually Lemon has no idea. how things will improve and suspects (if not knows) that things will be worse.

I really wondered if we should set up a Brexit Bingo using the trotted out words that we hear time after time from the Tories/Leave. Then I realised someone would only have to keep track of one person's posts and they would win.

P.S. Most of the Leave voters I know in the Labour stronghold I live in are actually tory voters...

I actually put this on elsewhere as I didn't realise you had started a thread with it. It obviously caught a few of us with a sense of fellow-feeling.

It's this sentence that sums it up for me.

But why do so many still support Leave when it is so apparent that this agenda is so harmful to them? And I mean harmful in the sense of very obviously imposing restrictions on their well-being? What is the trade off?

But answer came there none.

Many areas who voted leave ,too stupid to think it through, are also Labour voting areas , m mmmmm

Ab, I suggest that you have a look at this study which shows that even in supposedly Labour Leave voting areas some two thirds of Labour voters (63%) actually voted Remain. The Leave vote depended on voters from other parties...

www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-findings/labours-electoral-dilemma/#.XbbnfZr7TIX

And please stop the inverted snobbery. No-one with any intelligence thinks anything but that Labour voters are as diverse in intelligence and educational achievement as any other group of voters.

So the Labour Party are dependant on those of lower educational qualifications.

Explains why I left the Labour Party

I'm afraid many of those who voted to leave reinforce the stereotype for themselves by what they say.

lemongrove It is a fact that those who voted leave tend to have lower educational qualifications and are older. Maybe you think it's not politically correct to mention it.

Sorry about that Anniebach. Maybe somebody should enlighten them. VoteLeave and UKIP quite deliberately exploited the genuine grievances of people who felt nobody was listening to them. They need foot soldiers to vote for them and they got them. And if you don't like that, try reading what Banks, Cumming and the rest of them have written themselves.

I agree Dinahmo, the remain campaign was apallingly lacking and that IMO was a major factor in the leave majority.

Well said Lemon

Many areas who voted leave ,too stupid to think it through, are also Labour voting areas , m mmmmm

Does anyone remember the tv advert just after the referendum about the NHS? It purported to show how the £350 million would be spent. There was a split screen with one half showing a hospital waiting room with people who'd been waiting for hours and gloomy nurses and doctors. The second half showed what it could be like - a few people waiting and smiling faces from the staff.

When we first saw the ad on tv our first thought was that the Remain cause was stuffed. It's a great pity that Remainers haven't produced such good propaganda.

‘Ere we go, ‘ere we go, ‘ere we go......Leavers are all an uneducated bunch who can’t tell their arse from their elbow and come from depressed parts of the country, where they no doubt hang about with a bit of straw in their mouths mumbling about ‘Empire’.All 17.4 million of them.If it wasn’t so crazy you would have to cry!
Whereas all Remainers had a wonderful education, live in thriving parts of the country and had deep meaningful debates with themselves about the wonders of the EU. None of them could possibly have voted Remain because they were scared of letting go of Nanny EU’s clammy hand.

We sadly remain a divided country because of the mainly Remain ( sorry, but it has to be said) twisting and turning and trying to overturn a democratic vote to Leave the EU and constantly painting ‘the other side’ as bad guys who didn’t know what they were voting for.Unless this attitude stops we will remain divided.It has to be accepted that the vote was to leave the EU and although remainers don’t have to like that and can struggle on fighting against it, what they should not carry on doing is to fight against anyone who voted to leave.
This is wrong, and exactly what the Archbishop of York was speaking about the other day.
You may not have wanted a thread that insults leavers WWM2 but that’s what you’ve got....and will continue to get by posters constantly re-running the referendum on here.

Interesting article in The Conversation flagged up by a friend a few days ago:

If Brexit really is the issue which has riven the British public, dividing it into two irreconcilable blocs, why was it so low down the list of urgent concerns at the end of 2015? And not only then: the percentage of people rating it as a major issue had remained in the single digits for more than a decade.

This data does not support a view of Britain’s relationship with Europe as the cause of a longstanding and deep split within the British people. Instead it points to the referendum and the propaganda around it – before and since – as causing the split. Prior to 2016, although people differed in their views of Europe – sometimes strongly – it was never, for most, the overriding issue which it has become.

theconversation.com/british-people-hardly-ever-thought-about-the-eu-before-brexit-now-it-dominates-their-lives-123784

It addresses the point that has always intrigued me. We weren't interested in the EU before 2015 (I've even posted the polling graph a few times). Normally you'd expect a flurry of interest in a topic at about the time that it is 'live' but then it drops away. But anti-EU views are deeply entrenched now...