Can anyone apart from the elite, say what they want from Brexit

It was Cummings who came up with the strategy to appeal to people's emotions rather than their brains. He even bragged about it afterwards.

The sad fact is that they are being shafted by those in London - Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and the rest, egged on by the billionaire owners of The Sun, The Express and The Daily Mail who continue to mislead them whilst laughing all the way to the bank.

MOnica I quite clearly remember a vox pop at the time, which could have been a Monty Python sketch. A young man was sitting on a wall in South Wales and said "What has the EU ever done for people round here?" Just behind him was one of those massive blue billboards advertising that a certain project was funded by the EU.

I think you've summed it up very succinctly.

I feel from a lot of those who voted leave just wanted to stick a proverbial two fingers up to the elite and it was a knee jerk reaction, not a considered weighing up of the facts.

Some people think Boris Johnson was and is the best thing that has ever happened to the Tory party. Meaning he has destroyed it and it is on its way out. Rather a brutal viewpoint, but I've heard it expressed. I do think he is a bully, in the way he goes about things, in his language and in politics. Astoundingly, even the Archbishop recently expressed the same view.

But change is coming. Thank heavens.

I think the mistake being made is thinking that many of those who voted leave - or remain - had considered the subject deeply and voted the way they did because they clearly understood the issues and had made a considered judgment.

I can clearly remember a lot of vox pops at the time. The reasons given for voting Leave included that his wife would not get her pension at 60 and would have to work until she was 65, nothing to do with the EU. Several other interviews gave similar reasons that had nothing to do with the EU.

Broadly those in the less economically thriving areas of the country blamed all their ills on the EU and voted out and older people in those areas looked back with rose-tinted spectacles to a world without immigrants and when jobs were plentiful and believed these times would return with Brexit.

Such people cling to Leaving because they voted Leave and expect it to happen. The constant back and forths about borders, customs unions etc mean nothing to them. They just think that once again they are being shafted by those in charge and in London and that just makes them more resentful and just want out.

Care to elaborate on that, Ab?

Never thought of the South Wales Valleys as Tory and Thatchers children.

Murphy's blog can be found here:

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/10/27/can-anyone-outside-the-tory-elite-explain-what-they-want-from-brexit/

Many of the comments are worth reading, too.

A reply from Pilgrim

I believe that it’s all about notional headline stuff for them – notions of sovereignty, the impact of immigration, the source of law – plus ignorance – that of our own government agreeing to European law rather than supposedly having it imposed on us (most Leavers are actually against their own Government co-operating with the EU). Mix in a healthy dollop of backward looking wishful thinking – ‘make the UK great again’ in splendid isolation – because we have not come to terms with the loss of our Empire

The Tories in an effort to stay in power have gone native with the Leavers (since May was PM anyway).

I say again that many people are misled – but they are misled because they are unhappy with their lot – they have seen changes that they cannot explain that make them mistrustful of the world and easy prey for people like Cummings and Farage. They trust no-one except those who pander to their worst fears and prejudices. They are being played by the part of the Establishment which itself never came to terms with sharing power and want Britain to be great but stupidly think it can only be via incoming investment.

This Establishment cadre wants Britain to be great but unlike their forefathers are not prepared to pay for it themselves.

Leavers are programmed by the media to accept the Establishment’s view on the EU and therefore ignore the reality of the consequences for their real lives. They are just being used.

The Left in this country is associated with the weak. Those who vote Tory and Leave are Thatcher’s children and are drawn to the idea of standing on their own feet and making their way in the world come what may. To accept Corbyn is to admit defeat and shame.

This what Thatcher has done to us – created a bunch of people who are hardened to the point of not believing there is a better way to run a society.

The softening of the Left under Blair and its borrowing of US style welfarism has not helped the Left either – it’s a system that consciously makes people self conscious about needing help – no wonder many want to go no where near it or feel that it is their fault that they need help – not the stupid way the economy works.