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Can anyone apart from the elite, say what they want from Brexit

(186 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Mon 28-Oct-19 08:21:18

I am aware that this blog post treads on contentious ground. But I think it only fair to say that I could not answer European’s questions as to what Brexiters want, put to me last week.

I can answer why we got Brexit. Austerity and the attitudes of indifference that led to it can answer almost all aspects of that question in some way or other. If an elite does not care eventually the majority find a way to bite back. And they did. So I am not saying I do not understand why a majority voted as they did. I think I do. I am instead saying I do not know what Leavers want now.

It’s clear that the government wants to pursue radical de-regulation on everything from worker to environmental, social and financial protections. Their goal is Singapore-on-Thames where they can show contempt for international norms and standards on every imaginable issue, and depart from previously hallowed ground on matters such as the NHS. Their desired outcome is a country with a more powerful and relatively richer elite, and they are indifferent as to whether that reduces the income of all else in the country. They, at least, can be understood.

But why do so many still support Leave when it is so apparent that this agenda is so harmful to them? And I mean harmful in the sense of very obviously imposing restrictions on their well-being? What is the trade off? Where is the gain? What advantage does the pursuit of English nationalism provide that makes it worthwhile having despite it making most worse off within the country, and by international comparison?

I know I am told, time and again, that I must seek to understand the Leaver. And I have tried. And no Leaver I have met has ever come close to being able to answer the simple question ‘how will your life be better by leaving given that you know there are costs from doing so?’ The best most do is deny the cost. But they still can’t explain the gain.

Richard Murphy
Oct 2019

Dinahmo Thu 31-Oct-19 22:17:32

absthame You're not insane at all. I've posted a similar point but not as succinctly as you. But Leavers won't believe you.

varian Thu 31-Oct-19 21:58:12

The Russians would celebrate if this brexit nonsense is not stopped

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/17/russian-iranian-twitter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/

Nonnie Thu 31-Oct-19 13:03:10

Alexa we are not rich but neither are we poor and we will be OK whatever happens. We have made a profit on our US shares because of the fall in the £ but I would happily give that up for the sake of those less fortunate rather than leave the EU and hurt the UK. I won't be voting Conservative, I will vote for any party which will oust them, in my case LD.

Alexa Thu 31-Oct-19 12:37:54

Are you rich? Then vote Conservative

Are you rich, but care about other people? Then don't vote Conservative

lemongrove Wed 30-Oct-19 21:21:53

Gabriella ? short, sharp, and to the point.

grapefruitpip Wed 30-Oct-19 21:12:50

Yes what? Surely you are one of the elite?

GabriellaG54 Wed 30-Oct-19 21:10:42

Yes

absthame Wed 30-Oct-19 20:58:26

The bad press started as soon as the 2 to 1 majority of the very first referendum was announced when the right-wing of the Tory party refused to accept the results, swearing to drive the UK out of the EEC and supported by the express and mail newspapers.

The steady drip drip of lies had it's effect leading to the 2015 farce of a referendum where the same people who rejected the 2 to 1 majority of the 1975 referendum believe that it is less sacrosanct that a 52 to 48% result in more recent times and rejecting a 2 to 1 majority is more democratic than questioning the 52% to 48% result. Am I totally insane to challenge such weird values

Nonnie Wed 30-Oct-19 13:31:02

Oops I think you have hit a good point there. Imo many voted leave because the EU had such a bad press, some of which I agree with. However, if the remain campaign had made the point about what we have gained and what we would lose there might have been a different outcome. It is so easy to vote against something you don't like but in many cases they don't realise they are 'cutting off their nose to spite their face'. EU has faults but we lose more than we gain.

Please read this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50219036?utm_source=bestforbritain.org&fbclid=IwAR1hyE-yROWQzL9kDiMrBgFhvakjSIZBzbRTPE3p5l549R5ZAGmXw8YG57I

Oopsminty Wed 30-Oct-19 10:12:55

What everyone seems to forget is there had been anti EU feelings for decades. Nothing to do with lying MPs and immigration.

The Lib Dems wanted a Referendum years ago. Corbyn has always been anti EU.

But all that seems to have been forgotten and now anyone who voted Leave is classed as a racist, which is disgraceful.

maddyone Wed 30-Oct-19 10:07:29

Unfortunately people like that mean that all leavers get tarred with the same brush. People were justifiably concerned about pressure on services, sovereignty, and lack of accountability, which I think informed the leave vote.

Nonnie Wed 30-Oct-19 10:00:03

GagaJo Tue 29-Oct-19 17:52:22 good luck with that? I have been asking why since 2016 still waiting.

I know one person who voted to leave because he wanted to stop black people coming to the UK. None of us could talk him out of his opinion. I also got into a Fb debate with a friend of a friend and he wanted to stop Muslims coming in. He finally stopped berating me when I asked him which EU country they were coming from! I believe there were people who voted for racist reasons.

varian Tue 29-Oct-19 19:35:44

There was a huge amount of ignorance in 2016 when we were asked for a simple answer to a very complicated question which hardly anyone understood.

M0nica Tue 29-Oct-19 18:59:50

Well, if leavers voted 'Leave' because they thought it would mean the end of Albanian and Turkish immigrants, it just shows how little they knew when they made their decision.sad

Calendargirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:36:41

grapefruitpip

He was of course humming it!

Callistemon Tue 29-Oct-19 18:31:46

Chin up Gonegirl
I think many of us are feeling jaded

maddyone Tue 29-Oct-19 18:29:10

Hope you feel better soon Gonegirl.

maddyone Tue 29-Oct-19 18:28:27

Bosnia isn’t in the EU though is it? Nor Albania which also has a Muslim population alongside an Orthodox population.
I’ve travelled a fair bit in Eastern European countries, Poland, East Germany, Hungry, Czech Republic, Slovenia, and Croatia, and also Montenegro and Bosnia, but they’re not in the EU. There are very few of any ethnic minority in any of those countries. You barely see anyone other than white people in western style dress.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:25:23

Feeling more jaded than feisty at the moment maddyone.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:24:11

OK! Forget the "eastern European bit"!

#noideawhereanyonecomesfrom

hmm

MaizieD Tue 29-Oct-19 18:23:32

Neither of them is in the EU grapefruitpip

grapefruitpip Tue 29-Oct-19 18:20:07

That's what I thought Callistemon.....Albania/ Turkey?

maddyone Tue 29-Oct-19 18:19:43

Ha ha, I love your feisty response Gonegirl.

Callistemon Tue 29-Oct-19 18:15:18

Most Eastern Europeans are Roman Catholic or Orthodox Christian with some Lutheran and and the majority of the population of some countries eg Czech Republic (I believe) say they have no faith.
I understood that only Bosnia has a predominantly Muslim population.

Gonegirl Tue 29-Oct-19 18:08:47

I was a remainer. Past caring now.