Considering voting Labour?

I would imagine pretty much the same, tooting; why shouldn't they if they've been doing it OK up until now (although we know that some companies spectacularly haven't been doing OK up 'til now). The main difference would be that whatever profits there are to be made will go back to the Treasury rather than as dividend to shareholders.

It is amazing how short memories some people have when it comes down to facts. To blame Gordon Brown for the financial crises is just sheer prejudice. It was caused ironically by sheer greed in a capitalist financial & Banking system both in the USA & here in the UK. A number of the Hedging Funds also trying to making a killing. Greed is one of the main curses of our society, to distort the facts for political gain is immoral .

No one will Maizie. To much like hard work when they're used to being fed the lines they come out with.

What I want to know with nationalisation. Who is going to manage it. I would imagine a Labour goverment would need trawl the private sector to find the talent and experience.

Can someone point me to where in the Labour manifesto it says that Labour will abolish the marriage tax allowance?

Interestingly, when searching for it I found this from the Lib Dems when it was first proposed:

www.libdemvoice.org/evan-harris-writes-35127.html

You are wrong in all your assertions about the marriage tax allowance, lemon. Do you ever check the what you are saying is correct before you say it?

From The Money Saving Expert web site:

Start

Only people with specific circumstances will be able to apply:
You're married or in a civil partnership (just living together doesn't count).
One of you needs to be a non-taxpayer, which in the UK and Scotland usually means earning less than the £12,500 personal allowance between 6 April 2019 and 5 April 2020. (previous personal allowance rates).
The other partner needs to be a basic 20% rate taxpayer (higher or additional-rate taxpayers aren't eligible for this allowance). This means you'd normally need to earn less than £50,000 (previous tax year rates) or if you live in Scotland, £43,430 (previous tax year rates).
You both must have been born on or after 6 April 1935 (if not, there's another tax perk).

End

www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/marriage-tax-allowance/

Personally I'm a bit bemused by it all. I distinctly recall that in the '70s when I was married to a student (not earning) the Tax Office let me add the whole of his tax allowance to mine. When this was stopped I have no idea as it no longer applied when he started earning.

It doesn't seem to me to be a particularly pernicious tax, but I'd like to know just what Labour have said about it and their rationale for proposing to abolish it.

The married couples allowance is a complete anomaly in today's society. Why should two people who have been through a certain ceremony have more allowance than a couple in a civil partnership or who choose just to co-habit? Time it was got rid of.

Jane43 yes, I saw that interview with Raynor, it was a car crash, she wouldn’t come up with a single honest answer.
The married tax allowance is open to all ( married, naturally) and income doesn’t come into it.
However, we needn’t really worry, as it looks as if Labour are rapidly going down the pan with the electorate.

Sorry, that was to Jane.

Hmmm. I have to say I don't have a problem with it's abolition; it's a very unfair tax.

I'm sure the Labour Party will be sorry to loose your putative vote. Perhaps they will explain in greater depth but sadly I can't. All taxation is moving toward the individual - catching up with society as it is today. I shall wait and see what else is said but this one thing simply doesn't outweigh my desperate need to see the dystopian world, that both Conservative policies and the far-right views on the EU have created, come to an end.

Hopefully they will explain more so your decision becomes easier.

You know as well as I do Maizie that government spending boosts the economy.

Jane43 I'm not sure what you mean about the marriage allowance. My understanding was that only couples with a non-earning (or on very low income) spouse are eligible for it. In my opinion it always was an unfair allowance, although it's probably a nice little perk for those eligible.

The last time a truly left wing government was in power in the UK was in the 1940s and even I'm too young to remember it.

I was considering voting Labour but after Angela Rayner’s appalling interview on Andrew Marr’s show this morning it is out of the question and I will probably abstain as I only have three candidates to choose from, Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem, I have no confidence in any of them.

It was the worst case of not answering questions I have ever seen and I watch politics programmes every day. Marr rightly challenged her on Labour’s contention that nobody earning less than £80,000 a year would pay any more tax whereas they would abolish the married allowance meaning that those in receipt of this would lose their tax allowance of £1250 a year therefore paying £250 a year more tax irrespective of their earnings and negating Labour’s claim. He put this to her several times but she repeatedly dodged the question and trotted out other benefits people would receive. She also avoided other questions Andrew Marr put to her. .

Along with tagging Compensation for WASPI women onto their manifesto when they realised what a vote catcher it was this has made it impossible for me to vote for Labour. I will probably give voting a miss this time.

''He said: "I expect that individual members of the party and cabinet will be able to campaign on the basis of their judgement.

"The party will meet and discuss... you know our proposals, negotiate a sensible deal, put that back to the British people alongside remain, and people will have to make a judgement of that deal against remain."
'Can't see better deal than Remain'

Asked if he would stay neutral, Mr McDonnell said: "No, I won't, but I don't think Jeremy is asking people to do that. I'll wait and see the details of the deal that we negotiate.

"I was in the [cross-party] negotiations with the Conservatives for six weeks, and I couldn't see a deal emerging that could beat remain."

He added: "Whatever we do, we've got to arrive at a situation where jobs and the economy will be protected.

"On that basis, Jeremy's role will be the honest broker, and whatever is decided will then be implemented by our Labour government."

McDonnell says he will campaign for remain - great..

It is indeed Lemongrove.

The debate wasn’t good at all, the questions were very weak, but the Question Time actually put the leaders on the spot and made them work and sweat a bit.
In the end though, it’s not how slick a performance is but what the electorate think of their plans.

Is anyone watching the Question Time Special. I think it's a better format than the so called debate. So really good questions too.

Data released on Thursday showed that government spending rose in the most recent month, which might help the sector’s output.

Now that is a really interesting statement, growstuff. Government spending helping the economy, eh?

I do suspect that one of the reasons we've not quite hit 'depression' yet is the huge amount of recent government spending on preparations for Brexit. (The economy is also being kept just about afloat by record levels of consumer debt, as I've posted elswhere this morning)

Quite Maizie. The FT reported this just two hours ago:


UK private sector activity deteriorated by the most in three years in November as uncertainty surrounding the general election and Brexit hurt domestic demand and exports.

The “flash”, or preliminary, IHS Markit/CIPS purchasing managers’ index combining the services and manufacturing sectors came in at 48.5 — its lowest reading since July 2016.

“The decline signalled by the flash PMI follows stagnation in October and adds to what has been the survey’s worst spell since the recession of 2008-9,” said Chris Williamson, chief business economist at IHS Markit.

The flash PMI for services — which account for about 80 per cent of the economy — dropped to 48.6 in November, from 50 in October. This was below economists’ expectation of no change and below the 50 mark, which separates expansion from contraction.

The flash PMI index for manufacturing also fell, to 48.3 from 49.6 in the previous month, dragging down the composite index.

Activity in the manufacturing sector was affected by a sharp deterioration in export orders and a reversal of stock building following the passing of the October 31 Brexit deadline.

“The weak survey data puts the economy on course for a 0.2 per cent drop in GDP in the fourth quarter, and also pushes the PMI further into territory that would normally be associated with the Bank of England adding more stimulus to the economy,” Mr Williamson said.

The figures knocked the pound, with sterling down 0.3 per cent against the dollar at $1.2870 shortly after their release.

Respondents to the survey largely attributed weaker domestic economic conditions to a lack of clarity in relation to Brexit as well as added uncertainty because of the December 12 election.

The figures mark the first time Markit has published flash PMI indices for the UK. These are based on about 85 per cent of respondents’ data and published one week before the final reading.

The PMIs are a measure of the health of private sector activity ahead of official output data. These latest figures point to economic growth deteriorating in the final quarter, after the UK’s gross domestic product contracted in August and September.

However, the PMIs, and other sentiment indicators, might excessively reflect the political uncertainties linked to the UK’s departure from the EU and the upcoming general election, economists warned.

Samuel Tombs, chief UK economist at Pantheon Macroeconomics, a consultancy, said: “The rate of GDP growth implied by the composite PMI . . . has been too low by an average of 0.2 percentage points over the last four quarters.”

Moreover, the services PMI does not include the retail and the public sectors. Data released on Thursday showed that government spending rose in the most recent month, which might help the sector’s output.

Despite those caveats, the overall picture remains gloomy.

“Even allowing for the fact that the purchasing managers’ surveys can tend to present an overly gloomy picture at times of heightened uncertainties, the November flash estimates do little to inspire confidence over fourth-quarter growth prospects,” said Howard Archer, chief economic adviser at the consultancy EY Item club.

AS none but the very optimistic are forecasting a Labour majority in this GE I suspect that the money markets are responding to these figures released today

twitter.com/IHSMarkitPMI/status/1197810951506014208

Anyone else noticed that since Labour’s fanfare of their manifesto (described as 2017 on steroids) that sterling went down today.

Funny that.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/201911/medium-710416-business-investment.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/201911/medium-971923-gdp-growth.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/201911/medium-664987-unsecured-household-debt.jpg

We have a failing economy right now, after nearly a decade of tory rule.

GDP is falling

Business investment is falling

And, the elephant in the room.

We have the highest level of personal debt per capita ever.
The private debt is a disaster waiting to happen. That's what fuelled the Global Financial Crisis in 2007/8.

Don't make me choke... Labour can't even decide if their plans are going to be realised inside the EU or outside!

Like that minor detail won't radically change what's achievable‼️

The fact that they don't even reference the impact shows that they either have absolutely no idea how to implement anything they've promised, or they're so deluded they don't realise they'll need a functioning economy.

I'm not a LP supporter but I like their manifesto and wish them well.
The country has been run into the ground since 2010. A real change ('re-set' the tories would say) is needed instead of the constant drip-feed mini top-ups with promises of more by 2030, which will never come and would be too little anyway, while the gap between rich and poor gets wider. That last is what I can't stomach.