Surprised about LibDems

I found Rees Mogg - he was on the telly this evening!

I didn't know Jo Swinson had used the term CIS women, Witzend. She really is not very appealing to many voters.
I think our local candidate is good but she probably will not get anywhere near.
It's been Tory/Labour/Tory here for years so should be interesting.

'In my view, all those Labour MPs that defied the Election first policy and those Lay Delegates of whom so many of took a week out of their annual holidays to attend that conference should be kicked out of the party at the very first instance '...I thought some of the voting was a bit confused at the time. And the Labour MP's that had to go were the ones that seemed to represent me. I'm not the only Labour Party member that has left because they felt unrepresented by the party regarding Brexit. And that saddens me beyond belief.

Callistemon; that I don't understand either. The fact is that I, along with most people I know never thought a great deal about our EU membership until 2016 so all of the calls for a referendum went way above my head. And we are a family that discuss politics on a regular basis; always watched QT until it became toxic. It was obviously an elephant in the room that I didn't ignore, I just never saw it! I will ask questions but everyone is so busy election wise I may not get answers for a while. All I know is that I've felt politically homeless for a while and I'm comfortable with our local LibDem' ers; they all seem to share my feelings about what I want for the country. I was never left wing enough for our local Labour Party [which isn't saying that everyone in Labour is extreme left wing] but may, at some point, rejoin. I just hate how tribal it has all become . And what I feel about Johnson, Gove and Rees Mogg isn't repeatable....

Urmstongran, a second referendum was not popular with a large number of Labour MPs simply because the official party policy on Brexit was to pursue a General Election as first priority and then to bring forward a second referendum.

Those Labour MPs that did not follow that policy were in fact voting against what the lay members had voted for at the Annual Delegate Conference in 2017. However, many of those Labour Party MPs supporting solely a second referendum as the way forward thought they had far better wisdom than those factory, warehouse and shop workers that set the General Election First policy.

However, in the end, what did the whole of Parliament vote for as a resolution to the Brexit crisis.....a General Election.

In my view, all those Labour MPs that defied the Election first policy and those Lay Delegates of whom so many of took a week out of their annual holidays to attend that conference should be kicked out of the party at the very first instance available.

IMO Jo Swinson seriously irritated a lot of women by her use of the term CIS women, when referring to adult biological females.

Her talk of being PM - as if it was a serious possibility - was IMO ill advised , too. Made her sound deluded.

I dare say the LD candidate will still make it in this comstituency though - she lost by only about 50 votes last time.

It's just a bit of a shame that our sitting MP (Con) isn't a complete arse that we'd love to see the back of. Although I certainly don't agree with him on everything he's actually a very good and active constituency MP

But didn't some Labour MP's have to leave the party because they wanted another referendum eg Own Smith?

Yes, agreed Grandad1943 but the point was, the Tory party were split over Brexit - look at the antics of Grieve, Hammond, Liddington, Hammond etc.

So because under Theresa May it was such a muddle (Brexit being led by a Remainer with Ollie Robbins as her wingman and a more than Remainer Cabinet, amendments and thwarting tactics ruled.

Indicative votes amongst the MP’s revealed they themselves (ie the whole 650 of them) could not find a majority for anything! If I remember correctly they had about 6 indicative votes “CLEAR THE LOBBY” yelled Bercow.

And what I’m saying is a second referendum wasn’t popular then either!

Laibak why would a party always staunchly for remaining in the EU demand a referendum (2011?)?
Surely they would have been happy with the status quo and not wish to even contemplate the thought that a referendum could result in a leave result?

Urmstongran, the Tory Party and their paid doormat help in the form of the DUP could have brought forward and had any bill passed by the House of Commons if they could have agreed anything among themselves in regard to Brexit.

Funny how months ago in the indicative votes in the HoC a second referendum didn’t cut the mustard ....

Labaik in regard to your post @20:27 today, the members of the Parliamentary Labour Party argued among themselves what the Parties Brexit policy "should be". However, as stated in my earlier post in this thread the " General Election First policy" followed by a second referendum was set by the Lay Members at its Annual Delegate Conference in 2017.

That policy could never be changed by any group of Labour MPs, and should the party lose the forthcoming General Election it will be interesting to see what happens to those MPs should they still retain their seats in the House of Commons.

Indeed, it will be interesting to witness what the broader Labour Movement decides should happen to the Parliamentary Labour Party as a whole should it do Badly in this election.

My guess would be they will "pull the plug on it" and launch a new socialist party in Britain.

I can never forgive the LibDems for giving the tories the chance to govern.

Jo Swinson even appeared proud of what was achieved by the ConDems.

They sold their souls for a ministerial car.

….'and some of us have not forgotten that they used to be the party advocating a referendum'...however they have always been staunchly for remaining in the EU.

'Therefore, and as stated, Labour has been the only party in Parliament to have maintained a consistent stance on Brexit and that has been due to the decision it's lay members made in 2017'. Well, I've been a Labour voter all of my life and until the last few weeks I didn't have a clue what their policy regarding Brexit was as one member would say one thing and another would say something completely different. Whenever one of them has said 'the Labour position on Brexit is perfectly clear' me and my partner have laughed and people interviewing them have laughed also.

I feel that the outcome of this election will be decided in the leave voting traditional Labour heartlands of the North of England. If those constituencies decide to place leaving the EU above all else and in that vote Tory then Johnson could win the election with an overall majority in Parliament.

However, if those constituencies (as a number of opinion polls are predicting) decide that the NHS, Education and Welfare etc has to be their first priority and poll for Labour then once again a hung parliament will be the result.

Indeed we could even see a Labour SNP coalition government, as it is quite likely that Labour will take a few seats from the Tories in the London/South East of England.

The Lib Dems supported a second referendum, but then changed their minds on that and became the revoke party.
and some of us have not forgotten that they used to be the party advocating a referendum.

I thought that last time there was an election AllTheLs but it didn't happen.

Perhaps they will do better this time. I think they need to get their policies across rather than just remaining in the EU (yes, we know!) and Swinson thinking she has a chance of being PM (no she doesn't).

Concentrate on getting the message across about social care etc.

The present Labour Party Brexit policy was set by the lay delegates to its annual conference nearly eighteen months ago. That policy is, and always has been, a General Election first then a second referendum.

No other political party, media pressure or individuals have changed that policy, and Labour is the only party to have possessed a consistent stance throughout the last two years.

The Lib Dems supported a second referendum, but then changed their minds on that and became the revoke party.

The ERG/Tory party stated we would leave in March this year, then we would be leaving in October this year and now possibly in January next year. The forgoing chaos for the country was brought about simply because the Tory Party and their paid help in the House of Commons, the DUP, could agree on nothing at all on Brexit among themselves

Therefore, and as stated, Labour has been the only party in Parliament to have maintained a consistent stance on Brexit and that has been due to the decision it's lay members made in 2017.

Jo Swinson is a plausible enough leader but her message has just not gained appeal, let’s face it a Corbyn led government propped up by SNP, Libdems and other odds and sods wouldn’t last 6 months.
My own opinion is that the majority are sick of Brexit and just want to get it over, whatever the consequences, the best way forward is to vote for Boris. Although the leave/remain share of the vote in percentage terms is quite close, translate that into seats won, the Tories get a majority.

And the Conservatives are campaigning as if the last ten years have been nothing to do with them, and it seems to be working ….

I think people have long memories and some will never forgive the LibDems for their complicity in supporting Tory Austerity and student funding.

The Labour party's collective amnesia about what the last Labour government under Blair/Brown was like, is so total it could be diagnosed as dementia.

I'm pretty sure that it was the rise in popularity of the LibDems because of their stance on Brexit that finally made the Labour Party get off the fence and, at least agree to a vote on the final deal. Without the LibDems pushing for one Labour would either be a Brexit supporting party or a who knows what party.

I am also unhappy with them making a GENERAL election about one issue (Brexit)

Would love to support them, Am politically moderate/centrist. But they hate women so can't.

Half of LibDem MPs are not ex-Tory.