Brexit dividing my family.

Growstuff and JaneD666, same here, I have spent cold draughty Saturdays handing out leaflets, asking people for their opinions on a second referendum, so I suppose going by the daft, hysterical statements of some on here, I am either 'ultra leftie' or some sort of Labour party mole, solely on here to undermine the political opinions of people I have never met. I was driven to act, for the first time in my life, because I am angry, and sending emails to my (ERG) MP and discussing my fears with friends just wasn't enough. I had a few ineresting conversations with people, the majority polite irrespective of whether they voted remain or leave, but I have to say that the only people who shouted at us, accused us of 'allowing in millions of Turks' and 'sending our sons into the EU army' and even 'falling for Germany's trick, don't you realise the Nazis are reforming and planning on taking over Europe?'.......were Leavers. If you are so confident that you have made the correct decision, why must you shout and insult those who think differently?

Same here JaneD666. I shove leaflets through door boxes and sometimes stand around in a market place on cold, blustery Saturday mornings. I never approach anybody directly, but people do come and talk. Many are supportive and ask genuine questions. Others just want an argument and can be absolutely obnoxious and downright rude and personal. I give them facts and their eyes glaze over. They just don't want to know.

A friend of mine, who often stands with me, is a UK citizen and has a senior job, but still retains a strong German accent. I have witnessed blatant and direct xenophobia when people speak to her. We stay calm and polite, but it does appear that there are some very angry and bitter people out there.

I have no idea whether I influence anybody. Unfortunately, I doubt it, but I'm not prepared to stand back and let so many lies go unchallenged.

I let myself imagine for a moment how I would feel to have a Labour government on the 13th

The very emotional answer is tears of relief and joy.

I can't imagine any tory voter feeling that way if the tories get in.

People here have posted about political influencers and activists. Hand up - I AM an activist. That is, I joined political party relatively recently and spend some time knocking on doors and shoving leafets through letterboxes. I would much sooner NOT be activist - I would like to just get on with my daily life, and writing my books and poetry. But we had got to the stage of throwing things at the television, and came the conclusion that we at least needed to TRY to do something. If our efforts are in vain, and (as I suspect) things go horribly badly for our country, at least we'll know we did our best.

Chestnut Do you have a link to the source of that quote? I Googled lawanddemocracy.org and Principles of Democracy - a list of thirteen principles. but couldn't find anything.

In fact, there is no international consensus on principles of democracy.

As a second point, the referendum wasn't an election.

gagajo
gransnet isn't promoting anything. The things written on here are from individuals, NOT the site.

But obviously they aren’t shutting it down. So must be complicit. sarcasm

A couple of responses.

ananimous, a democratic decision based on LIES is not a democratic decision.

Political influencers? You mean ordinary people like you with opinions, that you just happen to disagree with.

Notthatoldyet9, gransnet isn't promoting anything. The things written on here are from individuals, NOT the site.

I am very concerned that gransnet is promoting labour from the promises which will never be fulfilled

When you do not respect boundaries at all it really is no surprise that you want to unsee a democratic decision, too.

Democracy is not spending £9 million on another pointless referendum when we haven't enacted the first one.
Best out of 3? (£27 million) Lol!
Just so a few self-centred, extremely entitled ex-pats can swan around Europe on the cheap.

A lot of ((political influencers)) on here again...

Stop peddling your EU backed nonsense.

Jura, I never stay with people.

One sunny morning in 2016 I met a young woman in the park, both of us dog walking, she said "How are you?" to this old lady, me. I replied "I am depressed about the Referendum"
She soothed "It will be all right". I told her I was not as optimistic as she. ( She responded mainly about how corporation tax would be lowered so foreign companies would invest in the UK. But she omitted how schools, health, transport, housing and social care can be paid for without taxing the rich corporations.)

This was my one and only encounter with a leaver as far as I am aware. I simply don't move in those circles.

Of course I never ask- but in discussions, or when watching news or read papers, when you stay with people - you soon get the flavour - surely? And some people do insist on telling you and making it very clear... that they love Johnson, or Rees Mogg- and react massively negtively to others. You also see the papers they buy and read- and the comments they make.

Not when you see them for a drink, or a meal, perhaps- but certainly when you live abroad and you go and stay with them for a few days or they come to visit.

I don't ask casual aquaintances about their stance on leave or remain as I may be disappointed in them, and I prefer to keep on friendly speaking terms.

Friends , relatives, and friends of friends are all remainers. if anyone of this group was impressed by Johnson and Co I'd be amazed.

Several big differences with Switzerland. 1- Referendums are the norm and binding - unlike the UK where they are, by our own Laws, adivisory (and no PM is allowed to make promises above our Law) 2.- before every Referendum, every voter is given, with their voting papers, a very detailed booklet (often 20+ ages)- with all the pros and cons of voting one way or another, as seen by the Government, and by different parties. This booklet has to be checked and approved for accuracy and truth - before being published and sent to all voters.

So if at a later stage, bias and untruths are discovered, and it is rare due to above process- a vote would be cancelled.

Chestnut - THAT is democracy. May I remind all the the Electoral Commission judged that there were many lies told, and outside interference - and that they would normally cancel the vote due to that evidence. They however were not able to, because, by our own Laws- the Referendum was NOT legal and only advisory- whatever Cameron told us. The Law is the Law - Cameron, Johnson or ... Corbyn for that matter- have NO right whatsoever to promise otherwise.

It's Democracy, Individual Liberty, Tolerance and Respect. Free speech is America. Our 4 are supposed to work together.

So, why was the referendum in Switzerland taken again? Or is Switzerland not democratic. As for democracy well, how about free speech. We have every right to criticise a result that we feel to be based on lies [and wasn't legally binding anyway]. If it has resulted in a government that is ineffective well, that's probably because the voting public were promised things that were not achievable.

I'm going to vote to save the NHS (you know, the NHS that Labour fought to bring into existence in 1948)? Whilst the Tories are carving it up into separate services and selling it off? Is everyone aware that the NHS blood plasma service was sold off to a US company, Bain Capital, for £230m in 2013, which in turn, this year, has sold it on to a Chinese state-owned film, Creat, for £820m ??) Don't like Jeremy Corbyn - don't care; he won't be their leader for very long, but Johnson could last another decade and do untold damage. I'm going to hold my nose and vote Tactically to save the NHS. Hope others do too.

MaizieD - you need to find out what democracy is.
Maybe start here.

Florence 78 - wow what a start for a first post ''OMG Labaik Go get a glass of wine and a mince pie, it's not too late, it will help you sleep!!

Hi all - this is my first post and unlike many posters on this thread, I am not a political activist.''

With a very rude and nasty comment.
Followed by a very unpleasant accusation. And NO- none of us are activists- just very worried about Johnson becoming a disastrous, bungling PM leading to a hard Brexit that will decimate this country.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - but some people here are getting themselves into quite an angry and agitated state... (The estranged GPs stuck in denial, and trying to punish their AC through Gransnet confrontations? - Freudian.) Time for a visit to their doctor for some calming meds, maybe some therapy would help, too? The truth is that most ordinary people don't usually mention Brexit, but if they do it will be to say they are sick to death of the media bias, omissions, and the continual propaganda, and influencers. Spoiling my ballot, and OH SO glad we are Brexiting. UK - WON'T STAY! EU ARE THROUGH!

Realistically the how should have been worked out before the first vote but it wasn't so here we are.

I don't think people understand what a democracy is. We hold a general election at a maximum of 5 years. People change their minds. We were asked if we wanted to leave the EU, not how. There has been a lot of debate on the how and a consensus hasn't been reached. Putting how back to the people with an option to remain if they changed their minds is democracy.

You have a very strange idea of democracy, Chestnut. It sounds more fascist than democratic to me.

What is so 'chilling' about telling the truth about Johnson and refusing to accept the result of a referendum won by illegal means?

........about to vote for a lying, cheating charlatan just for the sake of forcing an invalid result on the country.
Chilling words, MaizieD. It seems you and others like you not only refuse to accept the result of the referendum but will not accept the result of the GE if it's not what you voted for.
With people like you democracy is well and truly dead.

If Europe is in a mess then we are in a bigger one.

I don't discuss Brexit with my friends. I voted to remain but keep politics away from my friends, although we are all united in the fact that Jeremy Corbyn would ruin the country if he became PM. Brexit has rumbled on for too long, to leave was the choice of the majority and it has to be accepted, now we need to get it done. Europe is in a mess anyway.